Thursday, February 5, 2009

"There were no gas chambers", says Catholic Bishop

Furthermore, Bishop Richard Williamson claims that historical "evidence" points against six millions of Jews being murdered by Nazis, and instead offers the estimate of "only" 300,000.

As you can imagine, after reading this I'm sitting here with steam pouring out of my ears. Don't get me wrong - I know there's a body of Holocaust deniers and what I call, for lack of a better term, "Holocaust diminishers"; I have encountered them, debated with them - and dropped it.

Bishop Williamson denies being prejudiced against Jews, but it's clear that this is no little innocent historical discussion. Of course, the Holocaust isn't just about numbers, but about the cold-blooded, organized, well-established murder which was supposed to be The Final Solution. However, Williamson's interview was not about historical accuracy. It was an obvious attempt to downplay the magnitude of Holocaust - the latest, though not the first (and probably not the last) deliberate attempt to wipe Jews off the face of the earth.

I'm not sure what sort of "evidence" he is talking about, but if it has a degree of credibility similar to the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" - which Mr. Williamson believes to be authentic - what more can I say?

Can you do math?

There are approximately 5.5 millions of Jews currently living in Israel, of which 2.2 millions are Ashkenazi (of European descent). We're talking about hundreds of thousands of families. I don't know a single Ashkenazi family in Israel which had not sustained losses during the Holocaust. The majority of my extended family, for instance, was murdered - in gas chambers (we have eye witnesses). The simple logic of even a very rough estimate - without reading any documentation - will tell you that we're at a scale of millions here.

And that's just Israel. Worldwide, there are approximately 13 millions of Jews, about 80% of whom are Ashkenazi. To my knowledge, there are over 5 millions of Jews in the USA, the majority of them Ashkenazi. Many of them lost family members during the Holocaust as well, and can tell about it.

This, not counting the families which were wiped out entirely, with no one left to live and tell the truth.

From another article: "The Pope has twice visited synagogues, in the US and his native Germany, and sought to make amends with the Islamic world after a speech at Regensburg two years ago in which he appeared to suggest that Islam was inherently violent and irrational. However, he recently declared that inter-religious dialogue "in the strict sense of the word" between Christians, Jews and Muslims was "not possible".

To tell you the truth, I'm not so sure what precisely is meant here by "inter-religious dialogue". The most optimistic scenario I personally can come up with is "live and let live", and even that seems far too hopeful. I don't know why some of my fellow Jews naively expect the world, and especially institutions of other religions, to side with us and protect us - or even like us. We are supposed to be self-reliant. After all, "In every generation one rises up against us to destroy us, and the Holy One saves us from their hand".

We outlived Haman. We outlived the Inquisition. We outlived Hitler, and in every generation, we will continue to outlive the latest offspring of Amalek who attempts to eliminate us. We aren't supposed to grovel, and should stand up straight and proud. Until the true Final Solution - the coming of the Messiah.

71 comments:

Laura said...

Hmm, in that context, I would interpret "inter-religious dialog" to mean a discussion of who is correct. Obviously, by definition, a Jew and a Christian and a Muslim will never agree how best to practice their spirituality. I think that live and let live is fully within the scope of all three religious establishments, even if each religion is inherently irrational from the point of view of the others, when it comes down to basic doctrine.

LaurenAshley said...

It has always amazed me how people can deny history that there is eventence of, let alone history that is being told through people who experienced it first hand!
I have never understood why people are prejudice against the Jewish people either. There is just to much hate in the world, the only thing we can truely do is turn to God and believe that he will be with those who trust in him. It is a very comforting thought.

Anonymous said...

As a Catholic reader, I hope that Bishop Williamson's remarks do not represent the Catholic Church to you. Here is a link which I read recently of many quotes from Pope Benedict which explain his views of the horrible holocaust which took place under Hitler.

http://papastronsay.blogspot.com/2009/02/pope-has-already-spoken-clearly.html

He certainly does not deny the atrocities which took place. While I am not a Jew, my family lost members in the camps as they were of gypsy heritage.

Ewokgirl said...

Thankfully, the Pope is not in agreement with that bishop. One outspoken bishop does not represent the entire Catholic church.

As for "inter-religious dialogue," I'm not sure there can ever be a truly peaceful discussion between the 3 religions. There are too many violent factions within each to ever make any true peace. The more well-reasoned, of course, are able to take the attitude that you can believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want, and we'll learn someday who is correct. But too many people want to prove how right they are...

Unfortunately, I think the world is just set up to hate the Jews; it's the way it's always been, and I don't see that changing any time soon. It breaks my heart for that to be the case. I've especially never understood how anyone claiming to love Jesus could be anti-Semitic, seeing as how Jesus and all his disciples came from the Jewish faith.

The world is an imperfect place and will never be perfect until the coming of the Messiah. I realize that we are in disagreement on which coming that is. ;-) I'm okay with us having differing faiths.

A Marriage After His Heart said...

Anna,

I am not Jewish, but I also have steam coming out of my ears! This has to be the most absurd thing any religous official can say. If one person of any given race were mistreated simply because of who they are born to be, then it is one to many. Numbers are significant but still insignificant in the fact that it caused detriment, pain and suffering to those who were and still are affected by it.

Not trying to compare apples to oranges, but I am African American and while I don't like for my anscestors experiences to be compared to another races experiences I would be infuriated if the historical premise was diminished.

You are correct, the Jewish race has strongly survived many, many attempts of total anihilation, yet you are still here. Remain strong in your faith, and the pride you so deserve. God Bless.

Undersharing said...

Wow. They sure hired a gem, there. If it makes you feel any better, I've lived in two highly Catholic areas of the US (Texas has Latin American Catholics and Boston is Irish/Italian) and no one is denying the Holocaust. Pretty much the only people in the US who do that are crazy people like those on Stormfront. Heck, Stormfront just plain doesn't like anyone who isn't White, Protestant, heterosexual, and crazy so they're even at odds with the Catholic church.

That being said, media coverage of the Catholic church around here has been saturated with the years of cases and payouts to the people victimized by the sex abuse cases. One person's crazy, on-the-record remarks could easily fly under the radar when every week there's another notice of the church selling more property to make their court payments.

Becky said...

This sort of talk is really scary. If we (humanity) don't acknowledge, remember, and become deeply saddened by what Hitler did to the Jews in WWII, it becomes possible for it to happen again. We can't let that happen!

Erica Shier said...

Simply unbelievable. There are no word for the stupidity of such assertions. What is the point, other than to turn a blind eye to one of the most horrific event in human history. How frustrating and hurtful such assertions must be.

You are right, as GOd's chosen people, no hand will be able to destroy you. His mighty right hand will preserve and protect you.

As an AMerican Christian, I am so sorry to hear such untruths coming out of Christendom.

messy bessy said...

Yes, the Pope has rebuked Bshp. Williamson publicly. This one misguided (and possibly malicious) man does not speak for the Church.

For whatever it is worth, I want to offer an apology for this offensive speech from a Catholic. As Catholics we hold the Jews very dear; our catechism calls Jews "our elder brothers in faith."

One last thing -- "interreligious dialog" has meant several things, but in the context of this current pope I believe it means trying to clear up certain misconceptions -- on both sides -- of what we actually believe and profess, rather than what we are PORTRAYED as believing and professing.

Jane said...

As a Catholic, my heart goes out to you and all Jews. I'm devastated to think that Pope Benedict has requested the rehabilitation of Bishop Richard Williamson and agree that he should be permanently excommunicated for his statement denying that gas chambers were ever used. I pray too, that Pope Benedict will apologise for his insensitiveness and that Catholic and Jewish relations will continue to heal.

Otter Mom said...

Ignorance will be with us forever, I guess. I am not Catholic, but I have several friends who are. Please don't think that they all feel like that one ignorant person, because they don't. Nor do most Christians I know. I am always appalled to hear someone denying the Holocaust. It happened, and we have to stay vigilant. Evil is always going to be with us. We have to remember the past, to keep it from happening again.

Anonymous said...

"I don't know why some of my fellow Jews naively expect the world, and especially institutions of other religions, to side with us and protect us - or even like us. "

You are angry. But this person's views are not those of most Christians nor those of the institution of the Catholic church - nor any other major Christian institution. His views should be denied the oxygen of publicity in my opinion.

Gombojav Tribe said...

I'm another Christian who stands with the Jews, as most Christian believers I know do.

Please don't let this Bishop form your opinion of Western Christians in general.

{{{HUGS}}}

Kate said...

Inter-faith Dialogue, as I understand it and practice it, is to be a willing listener as others tell their stories.

The hope is that through listening we can begin to understand one another. As we begin to understand one another we can be more cautious about dropping bombs on each other.

Anna, your blog is an excellent example of organic Inter-Faith Dialogue. I am honored to participate with you and your readers.

Love,

Kate.

Ace said...

Hi Anna, I hope you and yours are well and that you inhale the sweet smell of new baby as much as possible. It wore off of mine at about three months. Oh, I miss that sweet smell.

Anna, I once saw a show where a man..I believe his name was Eli Wesel (sorry about the spelling) had photographs of the holocast. One haunts me still today. It was the Mothers, naked and lined up out front of the gas chambers...holding their young babies. You see, there was a pile of screaming babies nearby. The CHOICE was to dump your baby off to be killed and go to work..and live. OR, die with your baby.

IN ONE SECOND, I saw what a MOTHER IS and I WILL NEVER FORGET the young, scared women, naked, clutching their GIFTS and RESPONSIBLITIES from God. And I say, to be so bold, to stare a HORRIFIC DEATH in the face and say I WILL NOT BOW DOWN, I FEAR AND LOVE MY GOD and He will either save me and my sweet one or we go to Him. Well, I am ashamed of my frustrations with Mothering, my crankiness, losing my patience.

I am in AWE of those Jewish MOTHERS! The devil can say what he wants. The TRUTH STANDS!

And you know what, even his best shot did NOT and WILL NOT wipe off the face of the earth the LORD's OWN!

Many Blessings :)
Ace

MarkyMark said...

Anna,

I don't question whether or not the Holocaust happened; that's a matter of historical record. I don't know that, given the scale of the genocide that happened, if it's possible to pin the figure at six million Jews killed; for all we know, it could have been five or ten million. I believe that there were millions killed, but I don't know if it's possible to be more accurate than that.

Rather, what bothers me is the over emphasis on it, while totally ignoring the genocides committed by Communist dictators such as Stalin or Mao Zedong. Stalin & Mao made Hitler look like a saint. What bugs me is that the PC media NEVER want to talk about Stalin's purges; they never want to talk about Mao's Great Leap Forward or the Chinese Cultural Revolution. Both of those sad episodes of history dwarf whatever Hitler did. Communist dictators managed to kill 100 million people during the 20th Century!

Another little known fact is that, once Hitler was done exterminating the Jews, he was going to go after the Christians next. The only reason he didn't was because: 1) he didn't kill all the Jews; and 2) Germany lost the war. If Hitler hadn't committed some key blunders such as invading Russia or meddling with the development of the world's first, jet fighter (ME-262), Germany may very well have won the war, enabling Hitler to carry out his nefarious aims to their conclusion. Had Hitler had the chance, he would have killed TENS of millions of people! His genocides would be right up there with Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the rest of the Communist butchers of history.

Dictators of any stripe HAVE to go after your Orthodox Jews, Fundamentalist Christians, and Muslim Fundamentalists. Why? Because they worship God, not the dictator; God represents competition to the megalomaniacal mind, so strict adherents of your major religions MUST be stamped out. One either worships the dictator and The State, or he worships no one. When one worships God, God is THE Final Authority in that person's life, not The State.

That said, I think that we should remember the Holocaust; we should study and learn from it. We need to ask ourselves how such a smart, industrious people as the Germans were conditioned to believe that it was okay to exterminate an entire group of people. Could something like the Holocaust happen again? I think so. Just look at how men, Christians, and Jews are demonised today; they're portrayed as different, or even subhuman. What's scary is that the propaganda mechanisms at our governments' disposal are far more sophisticated than Hitler and Goebbels had to play with back in the day. We truly live in interesting times...

MarkyMark

Steve and Paula said...

Our government is succeeding in rewriting our history. The Holocaust is one of those things that is literaly being taught as myth in our higher ranks.
Even our nations founding Fathers faith in God, and His role in their lives is denied, and left out of everything now.
This horrifies me!
A former Hitler Youth has written a book warning Americans that we are in the beginning stages of our own holocaust.
He is right. The signs are all around us. Abortion is just the tip of the iceburg.
Eugenics is being practiced as I write this.
I am so sorry that your history is being denied.
We know though, that Truth will prevail.
Meanwhile, stand firm, stand for what is right, and never be afraid to speak out.
God bless,
Paula

Dirtdartwife said...

As a devout Catholic, I'm going to say that I trust in my beloved Pope. Reading the rest of the article you've posted, it states that this rescinding of Bish. Williams excommunications prevents him from being able to ordain more Bishops. Meaning his fruitless and idiotic ideologies will not continue. As a man that suffered as well through WWII, I'm pretty certain Pope Benedict is not supporting Bish William's views. Unfortunately, the Society of St. Pius X is crap theology and has members other than Bish. Williams... and unfortunately, there's people that will develop and follow crap theology in all religions.

Inter faith dialogue is always difficult amongst religions because one will always assume another is saying "I'm right and you're wrong." Some are actually more violent than others. However, this doesn't stop us humans from behaving in the manner God wants us to live and that's with love and compassion, even towards sinners.

I'd never see how someone can deny the Holocaust... I've been to some of the Concentration camps in Germany and have seen the evidence. I had family in Poland that suffered through the Blitzkreig... so there's MANY of us that had family that suffered through WWII.

Lara said...

As a Catholic, I cannot express the shame and outrage I feel at this man--especially since he is one who is now a face in our church to the rest of the world. Please know that I hope our pope takes care of this issue quickly. This really needs to be addressed by him from the top down. I'm so sorry, Anna.

K said...

Thank you for being strong on this. The world needs more people like you. I appreciate all you write and while I've never commented before (I feel I have little substance to add), I could not stop myself this time.

Your husband and daughter are blessed every day to have you on life's journey with them and I and all your readers owe them a debt of gratitude for our share of your time.


"We aren't supposed to grovel, and should stand up straight and proud."

If the world had more people like you, I wouldn't have to work so hard to have this message understood.

Judy said...

I hope you know that Bishop Williamson's views are in no way indicitive of the views of the Catholic Church or of most Catholics. I hope you also know that he has been censured by his superiors for making such statements.

Stephanie said...

This kind of stuff never fails to shock me to my core.

Jacqueline said...

Anna,
I am a (Baptist)Christian and not a Jewish person but I teach my children about the history of the Holocaust even at their young ages seven and nine. It is so very important!

They have recently read fiction books telling the story of children lives through the Holocaust," I am David" and Number the Stars."

They are taught that the Jews are God's chosen people, that we are to pray for the peace of Israel and for our country to not support Israel is to go against God.

I apologize for all the hate and evil done to all Jewish persons! I think the evil is a underlying spiritual thing against the one true God and taken out on His people.

But God blesses those whom He chooses to bless and no one can take that away from His children.

Peace to you and to your brothers and sisters in Him,
Love,
Jacqueline

Bethany Hudson said...

I second what your third poster (anonymous) said. Pope Benedict XVI has stated that Bishop Williamson will be held accountable for his remarks and has made it clear that Williamson, while no longer excommunicated, is not yet in full accord with the Catholic Church.

I hope that this misguided bishop will not color your views of the Catholic Church.

Here is a brief article explaining some of what Pope Benedict has meant in referring to "inter-religious dialogue." http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=12883

~Bethany

Blue Castle said...

This is unbelievable to me. There's just no excuse for this kind of un-intelligent notion that the holocaust didn't take place, or that it wasn't as bad as it was. This attack against God's chosen people only comes from the evil one. It doesn't matter who says it: a Catholic Bishop or the ruler of an Islamic nation. Anyone who says such things is truly deluded.

Andrea said...

Anna, I am pretty sure I will never be able to understand a person's motives for downplaying or denying the crimes against your people and against all humanity that were part of Hitler's gruesome Solution. While I understand that the mind does recoil from the idea that humans could even consider being party to such atrocities, I simply do not understand what can be gained by denying them outright.

Mermade said...

As a Catholic as well, I must say that I am extremely embarrassed about this bishop's obvious denial of what really happened during the Holocaust. I don't know what to say, but it deeply offends me that someone who says ANYTHING like that is still allowed to be a leader in the Catholic Church.

Neuropoet said...

Anna - I totally understand your anger - the whole Catholic Church is in an uproar over it. I just want to let you know that Williamson is known to be "not quite with it" if you know what I mean. Not that that excuses his remarks - but I just want you to know that the Catholic Church itself is horrified that he was interviewed like this. He has been in a "schismatic" group for many years and so he's been "out of reach" of the Holy Father - meaning that the Pope was unable to discipline him in any way. What is happening right now is movement to get this group back into contact with the Pope so he'll be able to "straighten them out" - as some would say. :) I'm not entirely certain how anyone can deny the truth of the Holocaust - it's a literally foolish (meaning only something a fool could believe) thing to do. Pope Benedict lived under Nazi rule in Germany, his father was part of the resistance, there's no way he would even suggest the Holocaust didn't happen. (As for the quote about what he supposedly said about Islam... it was taken completely out of context -- he was reading a quote by someone else while making the opposite point altogether... you have to be careful how the media interprets anything religious people say -- they tend to paint it in the worse way possible - whether it's the Pope, a Patriarch, a Rabbi, or a Muslim Cleric... I'm sick to death of the liberal media causing friction between faith groups - I'm afraid it will only get worse under America's new administration.)

sending you much love and a prayer for peace in your heart,
~Jenny

Analytical Adam said...

Mrs. Anna,

A radio host here Michael Smerconish who was a catholic was talking about this Willimason character and playing clips and he felt it was outrageous and makes his whole religion look people even though he doesn't represent the mainstream view and he said he visited the death camps and he was talking to a guest in how anyone can honestly believe this and he also said that this Williamson also believed that the 9/11 attack didn't involved planes crashing into buildings so this Williamson (as is usually the case) Jews are just the canary as he has a whole host of problems and believes in other crazy conspiracy theories.

Regarding talking to others of other faiths and even listening to those who are partially Jewish that I have to disagree. This passage by the way that in every generation there are those who want to destroy us some of those people ARE OUR OWN and likely include SOME RABBI'S who deep down want the Jewish people destroyed because they don't like what the torah says even if that means attacking their own. So using this logic we shouldn't even speak to other Jews because some Jews want to kill us as well. We should have dialogue with others and we should recognize that many times rank and file don't agree with the religious leaders as the leaders can be very narrow minded because they never have been in the trenches. Even in Israel I am aware that many Rabbi's don't want Jews involved at all with Christians but many rank and file Jews disagree and some of them have worked with others from other faiths so have a little more complex view of things then the spiritual leaders do.

lady jane said...

This makes my blood boil. I've no idea what detailed agenda those who deny the holocaust (or minimize it) maintain, but I do know the truth.

If we don't learn from the past we'll be doomed to repeat it.

There's a new movie out: Defiance. My friend, Zhanna, said her grandmother survived WW2 in a forest camp. This camp is the focus of the movie. It happened. It's an excellent film and I believe every person should view it. I cried my way though.

Last time we visited Washington, DC we made sure to visit the Holocaust Museum. It wasn't a quick experience. No. We took our time, read everything, viewed all the museum had to offer. 3.5 hours later we exited with heavy hearts and the hope that a holocaust won't ever happen again. I pray not.

pedalpower said...

Amazing how some people can still refuse to believe history. We have pictures...snapshots taken by grandfather's brother..of some of the horror he saw as a soldier liberating a concentration camp. How can they deny what lives in people's memories, in their photo albums, tattooed on their bodies, and took their family members? We should never forget these things. At a teacher's request, I've shared those photos with her jr. high history class...they all need to realize that this is history not some fictional story.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anna,

There are, as you said, eyewitness accounts of the holocaust, not to mention film footage and nazi documents that all serve as evidence to the slaughter of millions of innocent people. Those who want to disprove the holocaust by means of revisionism and discredit Israel via replacement theology, are in my opinion, setting the stage for future holocausts. There has been an increase worldwide in anti-semitic demonstrations, with the ever bias media that continues to portray Israel in a negative light. I can only hope and pray that more people stand with Israel and the jewish people and stop buying into the world's propaganda.

Mrs. Anna T said...

Certainly, I'm not associating Bishop Williamson's far-fetched ideas with the offical statement of the Catholic Church; the title of this post wasn't, for instance, "Catholic Church denies Holocaust."

"Unfortunately, I think the world is just set up to hate the Jews; it's the way it's always been, and I don't see that changing any time soon."

Esau can never be truly reconciled with Jacob, or Ishmael with Isaac; this is why I believe it's much better for Jews to boldly go their own way, rather than "dialogue" in a "please, oh please love us" manner. It just won't happen. I'm not talking about individuals, obviously; but on a large scale, Jews will never be loved or respected by the world, until the coming of the Messiah; it's all over the Prophecies.

Marky: this post wasn't about Stalin, but as someone who was born in the USSR, you can imagine I'm well aware of the atrocities of Stalin's regime.

During WWII, my grandparents and great-grandfather were "relocated" to Siberia, dropped off in the middle of nowhere and told to get by. My great-grandfather, who had run a liberal (too liberal, it turns out...) newspaper, perished in the hard conditions. Half of Ukraine was starved to death thanks to Stalin's deliberate manipulations. The culture and language of Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and other countries were horribly damaged. That was ethnic cleansing...

I wonder, have you read any of the works of Alexander Solzhenytsin? He sheds light in a most profound way on Stalin's reign of terror. It's not light reading, though, and doesn't fall in with my blog's general theme, which is why I have avoided reviewing it so far. However, I'm certainly aware of the fact that Hitler was *not* the only power-crazed lunatic out there.

As for wondering whether five, six or eight millions of Jews were slaughtered in the Nazi death camps, you'll probably agree that it's not the same as saying, "we aren't talking about millions at all, and there were NO gas chambers."

CappuccinoLife said...

Ick. As a Christian this is so disturbing to me. So sickening. :( I have never understood how anyone could deny the holocaust of the Jews. It just blows my mind to think of someone even trying.

I need to ask my Catholic parents what they think about this. :(

Anonymous said...

I am glad that other Catholics already reacted, but I still want to raise voice myself. I am horribly sorry to read what is Catholic priest (bishop!!!) writing!
Dear Anna, I want to appologize to you and other Jews, and also all the people who are hurt by deminishing horrors of Holocaust. I guess we Catholics have to pray more for our priests, and take bigger part in church life, so that what is being said in name of Church is said in goodnes, love and peace.
As it has been said, this is in no way position of the Church, or the Pope. On the contrary! Our Church deeply loves and respects our older brothers in faith.
And I want you to know that there are many Universities around here where Holocaust is being studied with deep compassion and seriousness. Jewish people isn't alone in their terrible historic burden. As a Catholic, I have already reacted in many situations where Jews were mentioned in some prejudiced way, and I will continue to do so as much as I can.

Anonymous said...

Wow, this Bishop Williams is a complete crackpot. To deny that Jews were murdered in the gas chambers is cray given the sheer numbers of eyewitnesses, including many, many eyewitnesses still living. And its equally crazy for him to deny being prejudiced against Jews when he believes in the obviously fraudulent Protocols of the Elders of Zion (a medieval hoax document purporting to prove that the Jews eat babies or some such ridiculous thing).

Crackpot though he is, Anna is quite right to speak out about this. Dislike and distrust of Jews is all too widespread even now, even when many don't express it in the obvious way of this Bishop.

I will join the chorus that this is not typical of modern Catholics (notwithstanding the horrible acts by the Catholic church towards Jews in centuries past).

(Also note that this Bishop Williams also despises women:

A woman can do a good imitation of handling ideas, but then she will not be thinking properly as a woman. Did this lawyeress check her hairdo before coming into court? If she did, she is a distracted lawyer. If she did not, she is one distorted woman.

Bishop Williams is also apparently quite stupid since there is nothing about basic grooming that is intellectually distracting.)

--Pendragon

Rachele said...

Dear Anna,

As a Catholic reader I feel I need to put this into context for you. Bp. Williamson is in the news because the Holy Father recently lifted the excommunication on him for his disobedience to Mother Church. The Pope has extended to him God's mercy, it is up to him if he will accept. Furthermore it is good to note, that being disobedient can get you excommunicated... holding erroneous view about historical facts simply makes you like most other sinners (not smart) although I acknowledge that this is of a particularly sensitive nature. Bp. Williamson also seems to deny the large number of Catholics, especially priests that also died in the concentration camps. He has issued an apology which you can read here http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/01/sspx-bp-williamson-mans-up/. As people of faith we must accept his small steps toward reconciliation. If we begin to call for every sinner who has ever offended us to be raked over the coals, there will be no one left.

Also, though I think it lacks the charity of a religious person I find this Rabbi's moderate views encouraging for continued Catholic-Jewish relations.http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/irwin_kula/2009/02/jewish_reaction_to_pope_dispro.html
He clearly sees the benefit of bringing Bp. Williamson back into the fold, based on his apology and the attention his rants have won him in recent days I would say the Holy Father's decision seems to be working on dear Bp. Williamson. Please join me in praying for him Anna.

While is many ways I share your views about "inter-religious" dialogue" we simply aren't going to agree, why force it... In this evil and secular wold I think we do better to stand together to demand our right to religion and morality than stand apart.

Peace,
Rachele

Anonymous said...

Two points:

1. There cannot be inter-religious dialogue between Catholics, Muslims, and Jews because the Church views its relationship with the Jews as different from its relationship with every other religious group. Muslims are not even close to having the same standing and so dialogue with Muslims is not at all the same thing.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 839: "The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God." The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."

2. I accept that you belive that Bishop Williamson does not reflect the views of the Catholic Church or the VAST majority of Catholics. In that case, I think it might have been better to title this blog entry, "'There were no gas chambers', says Richard Williamson". Of course, in that case, it's not much of a story. Using the phrase notes by someone above, denying these idiots "the oxygen of publicity" makes good sense to me.

Tracy said...

It makes me so angry when people deny what truely happened to the jewish people. I can't image how made it must make you feel! It is just horrible! I'm a christian and all the christians I know love the jewish people. Our saviour was jewish as wall as most of the first christians.

Breanna said...

Sooo... what does this bishop think was the purpose of all those buildings still standing in Germany? How distgusting can you get, especially if you claim to follow Christ-- a Jew!

Terry said...

As a Catholic, I was appalled to hear what that "bishop" said. As a mother, and a human being, there are no words to express my thoughts on any holocaust.

I'm just so sorry for any pain and anger this whole thing has caused you.

Terry

Original L said...

Wow. I can never believe there are actually people who still try to deny it. It is amazing how people really can fool themselves on purpose - truly, "the heart is deceitful and desparately wicked."

My grandfather was a POW briefly in Germany and he will almost never talk about it, but he is another of the millions of witnesses to the Holocaust.


On a strictly practical level, I am simply shocked at people who can ignore the long history of the Jewish people which proves that God's promise that he would "bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you" is absolutely true. Seriously, even a cursory study of history ought to show people not to even bother messing with God's chosen people, even if they don't feel like getting along.

Lady-in-the-Making said...

Anna, it is incomprehensible to me how people can claim there was no Holocaust. It staggers me.

As a believing Christian, please accept my apologies for the Jewish people having to put up with such ignorance and inflammatory comments.

This is intolerable.

Tammy said...

Deuteronomy 31:6 "Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee."

Jeremiah 32:40 "And I will make an everlasting covenant with [Israel], that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me."

Just a little encouragement...

Anonymous said...

I can't believe that anyone could try to deny that the holocost happened or that there were less people killed than there were. Not only did 6 million Jews die but I've heard that just as many if not more Christians died during this time. Hitler was an evil man. Yes I do beleive that as God chosen people the Jews should hold there heads up high and try to preserve their culture. I also believe that the messiah has already come and that at the end of the world he will come again. Take care and have a wonderful day.
HJ

Anonymous said...

So, let's see...what was all the fuss about back in the 1930's & early 40's ? That little skirmish called World War II.....? Comments like the one made by Bishop Williamson are a slap in the face to an entire group of people, & to all the people (both military & ordinary citizens) who died trying to free various nations from the grip of evil. Sorry to be so sarcastic; but I can't stand it when someone tries to rewrite history, & unfortunately there are many who would like to do just that. Just where are all the European Jews who were murdered supposed to have gone?

Brenda

Anonymous said...

this bishop is obviously hasn't read or has forgotten Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. This priest should be careful lest he joins the ranks of those who have or will bring the curse of God down upon them for not blessing the Jews. I pray President Obama never turns his back on Israel or the the curse of God will be on the United States, we have already lost his hand of blessing because we murder our unborn and allow immorality to run rampant how horrible it will be if we stop supporting Isreal. (no I am not Jewish just raised to believe the Bible and it says the Jews are Gods chosen people something this priest has forgotten)

Webfoot said...

Thank you for this post.

It is sad to see a man of his stature making such statements. Thank you for calling our attention to it.


Let's hope that a more official statement is forthcoming.

I am sorry for what happened to your family. God bless you.

Michael Medved shares an anecdote about a Rabbi friend of his who has 18 children, I think it is. One time they were all traveling on an airplane and a man from Germany made a nasty comment to them, asking how many children he thought they needed to have.

The Rabbi quipped, "6,000,000."

Mrs. Webfoot

Laura Spilde said...

Germany has been known for many of its persecutions of Christians and Jews. Even today, Germany is persecuting homeschoolers at unfair trials. The children are literally taken out of the parents arms and are forced into secular public school systems.

The direct result of the Holocaust is a lack of proper understanding of the Scriptures. A liberal understanding, often practiced in the Catholic church, has done much damage to faithful biblical Christians. Faithful Christians are often rejected by even their own family and have been martyred and persecuted throughout history. The Catholic church has been known to be a persecutor of such Christians. As a result many left for America to set up a nation adhering to religious freedom. Unfortunately Christians are finding themselves either succumbing to worldly ways of living or being heavily persecuted by secular people in communities of many kinds despite religious freedom opportunities.

Today a different holocaust is happening. It is happening in the womb! Women who are not Christian or Jewish or put on a show that they claim to be Christian or Jewish are literally wiping away their own flesh and blood via abortion or birth control methods. This would be considered offering ones children to Molech.....so to speak in modern/historical terms. These children are being sacrificed all in the name of Money.......

Dragon Petals said...

It baffles my mind how anyone in their right mind could argue that the Holocaust was a fabrication. It's not some far-off distant event that happened centuries ago; it happened little over HALF a century ago, with living eye witness accounts, media covering it, eye witnesses, the deaths of family members... It doesn't add up why it should be such a "controversy." Just because people weren't personally present for the Pearl Harbor bombing, for example, doesn't mean its existence is up for debate!

On another note, I visited two of the concentration camps as a teenager, with my school. We had the toughest looking guys in our year sobbing when we saw some of the torture chambers; they had family members who were murdered in those camps. It was sobering for all of us; whether or not we personally had Jewish family we felt the losses very personally. And when I was a child living in the United States, as well, we also visited (as a school) the Holocaust Memorial museum in Washington D.C, AND as a university student at a *Catholic* university, we had various Jewish scholars and rabbis come in to talk to us on Holocaust Memorial Day, and we all attended a memorial service. Perhaps it's not much of a comfort for you, Anna, but many of us without any Jewish background have been truly educated about (and horrified by) the atrocities that happened there. What happened during the Holocaust was a dark moment not only in Jewish history but in our whole human history as well.

Marianne said...

As a Catholic and granddaughter of a German Jewish man who escaped the holocaust, I certainly agree that numbers do matter.My grandfather has 17 descendants that I can think of including my 6 children.
Lets try and do more than just live and let live though. Lets try hard to truly forgive the troubled minds that come up with such extraordinary notions as holocaust denial.Hopefully we can put away bitterness so we can live and love too.
Peace.

Michelle said...

Hey, you got an award!

Come check it out!
http://michelleshomestead.blogspot.com/2009/02/thank-you.html

Coffee Catholic said...

Here's what I'd like to know:

Why is this guy wasting his time and energy obsessing about how many Jews were killed in the Holocaust? Are you telling me that in a world full of major hurt and suffering he's more worried about trying to do a body re-count on those who died in the Holocaust?!?!?! And uh... seeing as how he's a *Bishop* shouldn't he be expending his energy working on fixing problems within the Church instead of flapping his jaws about his totally useless opinions regarding the Holocaust? HELLO! People are dying of starvation in this world right now as I type ~ why not do something about THAT instead?!?!

Analytical Adam said...

Sometimes I wonder is people disliking you Mrs. Anna you interpret as Antisemitism. You have been very fortunate Anna but sometimes you lack compassion for other people who have been victimized by the so called RELIGIOUS WORLD and thier lives have been ruined by them and they are angry but they are not antisemites Mrs. Anna. I don't feel good when I see an Orthodox person Mrs. Anna. It isn't because I am an antisemite and I hate the G-d of Israel. It is because for the most part I have been treated like garbage and have been treated better by less religious Jews and nonjews. I'm sure some people think I am an antisemite if they don't know me but I am very upset at many of the things that go on in Orthodoxy especially the hatred and vicious lies about Jewish men that in my opinion is very similar to antisemitism. That Jewish men control women and are all controling and want trophy wives even though I rarely see evidence of this. It sounds like the same thing said that Jews (which is men) control banks and control the world. Rabbi's helped you Anna because your situation they would help. If you got along with your father and not your mother Anna I am telling you Anna you would have been told horrible things and you wouldn't be able to be part of Orthodoxy and when you saw an Orthodox person your first reaction would be anger because you were shafted becaue your problem didn't fit an inappropriate agenda.

The Jewish people themselves Mrs. Anna hated their own prohets and what they had to say and instead liked false prophets that told them what they wanted to hear.
THE MINORITY OF THE WORLD DO WHAT IS RIGHT, ANNA. Those that don't do what is right will of course hate a Jew that fears his G-d. That is true about Jews as well, Anna. You know there have been many holocausts in the world some done to their own people. Sometimes I feel you are against secular feminism but want to replace with Rabbinic Feminism where Rabbi's and the synogague take the place of the family which is a very big problem Mrs. Anna. We are turning A FEW MALE LEADERS into G-d while ignoring other men which I think is exactly what marxist feminism is and has always been and all religons at different times (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) have adopted themselves facist and totalitarian ideas that the secualr world had.
Sadly, the fact is throughout our long exile Judaism has adopted many feminist idea's and done nothing to protect men from women who behave badly. To just accept this Mrs. Anna and feel we can't question any part of Rabbinic Judaism thorugh our own common sense really says to me you just support a different type of feminism with Rabbi's who are not in the trenches and refuse to connect with rank and file Jewish men to ask how they feel about certain issues and if they can do anything to protect them for bad behavior of others whether it be other men or women. But you don't, Mrs. Anna. Rather you continue to support harsh idea's that it could have been you Mrs. Anna that was a victim of this.

And at some point Mrs. Anna you may find out yourself that you and your husband will be shunned or some Rabbi's will go after you because of your beliefs or because you are homeschooling your children. Don't think it couldn't happen, Mrs. Anna in the religious world. On Frumster I see women who are openly bragging about raising their child without the father and the Yeshiva and the Rabbi replace the father. Some of these men were a threat to the Rabbi obviously. If they could do that to a father what is to prevent them from doing that to any parent (who won't send their kid to their Yeshiva) as clearly these Rabbi's are violating a basic command to honor both your mother and father and once you open this what is to prevent seizing a child from any parent.

The Messiach is not going to come until we do challenge our religious dogma's that is mostly set by MALE LEADERS and Jews do it as well which hopefully would lead other religons to do the same.
To think part of a religious is never questions using your common sense decisions your own male religious leaders have made today or in the past seems to be religious facism to me. In the time of the Messiah everyone will live in his figtree. It is that private rights and family will be the strongest bond I think not that certain religious men will have absolute power and you are forbidden to question them.

Anonymous said...

Tragically there seems to be something in human nature that drives people to single out those who are "different" for hatred and discrimination. There have been many attempts through history to eliminate the Jews, the worst being Hitler's Final Solution.

I despair at times, when I see the hatred of man for his fellow men in the world. From the Inquisition to Darfur, from the Crusades to the atrocities being committed in the Congo as I write , it seems that people are simply determined to single out another group of people and decide that they are evil and must be obliterated.

Anna, I only wish people would be satisfied to live and let live, but it seems that some people are determined to force others into their worldview/religion/culture. Tragically, this has led to the extermination of some races (Tasmanians) and the decimation of others throughout history. Entire populations have been uprooted from their homes and torn away from their customs and beliefs, simply because some more powerful group of people decided that their way was the only "right" way.

It seems so simple, but if history is any proof, it is apparently not so simply. Why can't people live and let live? Why must there be holocausts? I feel no desire to make anyone else believe what I do, or to force them to live according to my culture. What is it that makes people feel they have a right to do these things to others?

I think of my family who perished in the Holocaust (Gypsies) and my seven friends and relatives who died in the Twin Towers, my Irish ancestors who were driven from their land in Ireland during the plantation times - and of all the others across history and across the planet, who were tormented, uprooted and destroyed because they happened to be different - and I weep.

Stephanie said...

Solzhenitsyn is brilliant! Everyone should read him.

Deanna said...

Anna, It is to my understanding that the Jews have remained and survived through out so much of history because in the beginning the jewish people are the Almighty's chosen people. G*D remains faithful in HIS promises. Though many jews have not lived a life pleasing to G*D, HE is faithful to HIS word. HE is faithful.

Anna, in all seriousness, what do you think happens to the Jews when the Messiah returns?

Blessings,
Deanna

Anonymous said...

"Inter-religious dialogue" between Christians and Jews is ridiculous at it's very base. The very center of Christian religion, The Christ, is completely denied by Jews. I am not even sure what these two religions are trying to do...feel warm and fuzzy? That is about all that will happen.
Much of the "holocaust denial" is not such, plain and simple. It is the fact that many Christians are frustrated because the persecution of Christians under Hitler is completely swept under the rug while Jews talk about how much the world hates them. There were thousands of convents and monasteries throughout Europe which were invaded, and the nuns and priests within were hauled off to concentration camps along with everyone else Hitler hated. Tons of Catholic families were gassed in chambers right along side the Jews and yet their suffering is forgotten. Everyone on earth has a bone to pick with someone; except the Catholics aren't allowed one. The Jews have Hitler, the Blacks have white 18th and 19th century America, and yet, anytime Christians were persecuted it is swept under the rug. We are not allowed to suffer, we are not allowed to have had "dark times." The suffering of every other social group is played up so much that society at large is in a perpetual frenzy to "make it right." Christians are always painted black and with a wide brush...who does the whole world really hate?

Stephanie said...

Then, last Anonymous, surely we need to include other groups in studies of the holocaust and not downplay the horrible sufferings of the Jews? Frustration that your particular group is not given as much attention for its trials (whatever they may be) is not grounds for holocaust minimization/denial. That is reducing the issue to a disgusting pettiness.

Linda said...

There's one thing that I just don't get with those people....... what about the pictures? Don't they speak for themselves? They didn't have photoshop back then?

greetings from the netherlands ;)

Mau said...

FYI,

Bishop Williamson has been removed as director of the seminary as part of the disciplinary action taken against him. The Church may react slowly, but thankfully the Church usually reacts. One must take into account it is a very large institution and often bogged down by internal and external politics, for good or ill.

To be honest I was a bit disappointed in your choice of post title as it was fairly inflammatory and showed your lack of understanding of where Bishop Williamson actually stands in the Catholic Church. He belongs to a recently formerly excommunicated group of Catholics referred to as SSPX (Society of Saint Pius the 10th) and as such, any statement made by anyone of their members does not reflect the thinking or teaching of the Catholic Church not does it represent the Catholic Church in any way shape or form. They have been in dialogue with the Holy See and seeking reconciliation. It is obvious Bishop Williamson did not want this reconciliation to occur and thus he began loudly denying the holocaust in order to jeopardize the reconciliation. I have no doubt in my mind that he likely personally holds these views as well. He has been rebuked, disciplined and ordered to recant his statement (so far he refuses to do so, attempting to avoid doing so and evading the order). I am sure further action will continue to be taken until Bishop Williamson either recants or is ousted completely as a dissident.

Anonymous said...

Anna

I don't understand - while I (a Catholic) do not agree with the Bishop's thoughts, I feel a bit bemused that you would make such a large post based on someone's anti-Semitic nonsense, while not appearing to write anything, that I can discover on your blog, about actual atrocities rather than just a rant against your people which have been occuring 'on your doorstep' over the past few months?

The news all over the media in this country has shown the hatred of some Muslims towards the Jewish people, why concentrate on one Christian's stupid comment?

Many thanks for reading.

Mrs. Anna T said...

Anon,

The reason I have avoided "going there" is that I'm afraid I won't be able to ever stop...

Anonymous said...

Anna,

Fair comment, if it's too much of a subject for the blog. I guess i'm quite reactionary as here in England the media is very quick to point the finger at Christians who cross the line while ignoring (out of fear of reprisals maybe) a lot of anger perpetrated by some of the Muslim community, even in our own country. (An aside - the London bombings of a few years ago were orchestrated by English born and educated Muslims who were 'anti-West'!)

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anna,
I read my first Solzhenitsyn book, Cancer Ward, when I was a teenager. It was very eye opening. May I humbly suggest that you read Rabbi David G. Dalin's book, The Myth of Hitler's Pope? It may dissipate your anger towards Catholics somewhat.
May God bless you and your family,
Suzanne

Buffy said...

Surely holocaust denial is an extreme form of attention seeking?

Sadly, one group of people bashing another because they are different has always gone on throughout history and is very much still with us today.

When will we learn to look at each other with compassion instead of hating each other for our differences?

Anonymous said...

Anna,
You might also be interested in reading this article www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/feb/09021007.html
God Bless,
Suzanne

Coffee Catholic said...

"I despair at times, when I see the hatred of man for his fellow men in the world. From the Inquisition to Darfur, from the Crusades to the atrocities being committed in the Congo as I write , it seems that people are simply determined to single out another group of people and decide that they are evil and must be obliterated."

Warning: Idenity Politics Time!

As a Catholic I am sick and tired of the Inquisition and the Crusades being misrepresented and lied about, implicitly or explicitly.

Please don't drag the Inquisition and the Crusades into this. They are a totally different ball of wax and had nothing to do with wiping out a race of people such as what happened to the Jews alla Hitler and his freaks. It had nothing to do with "ethnic cleansing" or "helping evolution" or any of the other satanic stuff Hitler brayed about. And acted upon.

Until you do your homework and actually understand the Inquisition and Crusades for what they really were, and how they fit into the context of the period in which they took place instead of super-imposing your modern views/opinions on something that took place a thousand years ago, then please refrain from making them out to be something that they were not. This only breeds more hatred against Catholics. And *This* Catholic is fed up with being held responsible for crimes that were not commited.

Let's keep the focus on where it belongs: Bishop Idiota flapping his jaws about the Holocaust. I have my own opinions regarding what I feel to be a total over-reaction (as well as the backlash against the Catholic Church) with regards to Bishop Williamson's stupidity but I deffinately do not believe a word of what he's trying to claim. Bishop Williamson's opinions is what Anna's post is all about - not the Catholic faith or the past actions of the Catholic Church.

There's enough lies about Catholics and the Catholic Church in this world already. I'm against anti-Semitism but I'm also against anti-Catholicism! One's illegal (thank God) but the other is totally legal and not only that but socially acceptable. You think I'm kidding? Become a Catholic and you'll get to enjoy the hatred sent your way ~ held aloft by the re-writing of history regarding such things as the Inquisition and the Crusades. I highly doubt a new Hitler is going to rise to power and try and wipe us Catholics out but hatered is hatred and it always leads to ugly things.

It's not enough to respect the Jews if we're going to turn around and disrespect people of other faiths! If you hear something negative about another faith/church then take the time to investigate the actual historical facts before jumping on the bandwagon and promoting more hatred.

Karen said...

That really frustrates me as well. Especially since I am seeing in my own community who Bishops are not being held accountable for their positions like the ought to be. The system is just not working well. There are bishops who believe in abortion, gay marriage and etc.

Even here, our bishop has tried to thwart our pro-life group by scheduling our big conferences on holidays, during big football games, etc. It just needs to be stopped. There are always going to be a few bad apples in any mix, but these people do NOT represent true Catholicism. They shouldn't even be allowed to continue on in the church since they oppose what we actually stand for. That's my opinion.

And I think it's pathetic how many Catholics choose to stick up for these wolves instead just because they don't want to admit that anything could possibly wrong with our precious religion. Well there are things wrong! And we need to fix them!!

An American Catholic said...

Dear Anna,
I am so sorry that these lies are being spread by someone who represents my faith! Please know that no matter what complete historical falsehoods Bishop Williamson might say, millions of American Catholics fought and died in WWII, and their personal testimony to the horrors of the Holocaust are being transmitted faithfully in public and private schools, as well as withing their families. (My great uncle lost the use of his arm in WWII, but he never reconsidered his sacrifice.) I have been going to Catholic school all my life, and we have been taught nothing but respect for the Jewish people (and all other faiths), and we have also been duly taught our own historical sins such as the Inquisition. It is something that we as a Church must strive to prevent from ever happening again. I know that if your family ever visited my community, you and your faith would be treated with the utmost respect.

Further, as an American, one of our most revered national buildings is the Holocaust Museum. It stands in our nation's capital as a chilling and eternal reminder of the true toll of those dark times. I am certain that if you came to visit this site, you would be consoled that the memory of these atrocities is preserved as truthfully and respectfully as possible, both to honor the dead and to prevent such a thing from ever happening again.

In the peace of G-d,
An American Catholic

Stephanie said...

I studied abroad at an international institute in France last year, and there were several young men from Saudi Arabia there as well. One of them was in my class, and he got in an argument with the professor about whether or not the Holocaust occurred. Obviously, he said it hadn't. The rest of us were outraged beyond the point of articulation in a second language, but he wasn't there the next day as it's illegal in France to say the Holocaust didn't happen, and he was expelled. I was relieved, but it was my first taste of what you have to deal with so often!