Monday, June 30, 2008

Why men don't court women anymore

I will be brutally honest: the situation in the singles' world today makes me happy I'm already married. Over the time while I've been writing here on "Domestic Felicity", and especially since I got engaged, I received several emails from young girls asking advice on how to find a good man and how to act in course of a courtship.

I don't have a magical solution, and I do know that the prospects can sometimes seem almost hopeless. As a single woman, you are surrounded by a generation of men who wouldn't think of opening a door for a woman, of carrying her coat or bag, or treating her by buying something nice when they ask her out. Wait, did I say ask her out? There are more than enough men out there who won't do even that. They will expect the woman to make the first move. Needless to say, they will also expect their wife to provide when they finally take the plunge and get married (which often doesn't happen until their late thirties), and preferably earn as much or more than they do.

Sadly, we have to admit that these attitudes didn't pop out of nowhere. This generation of men was brought up by women who had it hammered into their heads that having a man show courtesy towards them is humiliating, as well as their husband providing for them. Men were bullied out of gallantry, and the result is before us; the young man who treats a young lady like "one of the buddies" grows a few years older and expects his wife to fend for herself.

Despite that, many good women today are happily married to excellent men - which means these men are out there. There are still men who treasure feminine gentleness and want to protect their wives; there are still men who are ready to provide for their families. You just need to look out for them. A man doesn't wear a "Good Guy" sign. The kind, reliable, trustworthy, steady, hardworking, supportive men are often quiet and modest - and those who try to draw attention to themselves are often precisely the ones you should stay away from.

Years ago, I became infatuated with someone who didn't show signs of being interested in me. Had I been raised with the knowledge that the woman must be courted, it would have stopped right then. Instead, I continued to pursue him. He turned out to be self-centered, exploitative, and abusive on top of all. I realized it probably wasn't the way.

If you don't live in a close-knit religious community, and if your parents aren't involved in the process of making introductions, it can be easy to feel overwhelmed. Orthodox Jews have professional matchmakers and websites for religious singles, which has been especially wonderful for the shy, the detached, the lonely and the new guy (or girl) in town. However, I must say that a great deal of caution must be practiced here - the online world might be dangerous.

When my husband started courting me, I never called him until we were engaged. He was always the one who came to pick me up, and always the one who paid. Of course I'm not saying a girl should take advantage of men by ordering the most expensive item on the menu, but scrupulously splitting the bill for two cups of coffee seems to have taken away much of the courtesy in conquering a woman. It's a man's nature to win the woman's heart. Yes, I believe it still is, and if we act like ladies who need to be courted, we will attract those men who will treat us like princesses and remain our knights when they win our hand in marriage.

Being sweet, charming, gentle, courteous, delicate and feminine will encourage potential suitors not to be afraid of being men.

The way my husband is happy to cook and clean when I'm not feeling well, makes him no less knightly in my eyes than if he were actually clad in armor and riding a white stallion. I'm so happy I gave myself the chance to be a princess, because now he makes me feel like one!


Terry said...

Like you, Anna, I'm thankful I'm not single. It's a jungle out there! No boundaries or standards, and it appears that chivalry really is dead, or at least breathing its last. But for a young woman or man whose hope is in the Lord, there is always hope. They just need to be prayerful and discerning and they'll meet the right person.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you but you cannot blame a man if his wife must work too because we don't live in perfect world... in my country is bad economical situtation so I have to work... even with two salary it is hard to live... we don't have a car, we don't have a house... but we have each other and God's mercy...

Elizabeth said...

Anna ... what a TRULY beautiful post. Thank you for the reminder to "give myself the chance to be a princess" ...

BTW, I'm writing to you ... finally! :)


Anonymous said...

Great post Anna. Like you I am grateful that my husband will help cook and clean when I am having a lousy day or am ill. Also, its never too late to teach your man to be a gentleman. If we are about to enter a building and there are ladies in front of us, especially if they are elderly I will nudge him and whisper, open the door for them. The response he gets, especially from the elderly ladies puffs him up with pride like a peacock and next time he will usually do it without my nudging because he loved the response he got.

yoshi3329 said...

I so know what you mean the way you dress or act a will detrimine the type of men you'll attract, I hope I'm able to find a husband (Lord willing) just like you Anna!

Anonymous said...

If parents were training there young boys and girls in God's Word, they would become young men and women of virtue. God created men to be the provider, the protector, the spiritual leader in our homes and families. Women are to submit to their husbands with reverence, to be keepers of their homes, to be a helper to their husbands, and to train their children and offer hospitality. If people were fulfilling their God-given roles, there wouldnt be this issue. When we are living as God intended, everything falls into place just how it should be.

USAincognito said...

Here in America there is a difference between Northern raised men and Southern raised men. Though it is not true of all men in each region, I find that the mamjority ofSouthern men are still taught to open doors, pull out a chair, etc. for women. Most Northern men are not taught to be gentlemen and are rather taught that women can fend for themselves. Two different ways of life in one country.....I do so miss the chivalry of the South and hope to return to live there again one day soon.

Louie said...

But Anonymous, not every woman has a husband to provide for her, and husbands can get sick or disabled. Staying at home is just not an option for many women, even if they wish to, and many do not. And as Natasha says, there are often financial reasons for both partners to work. However, Anna's point about courtesy and good manners is a good one and applies to everyone, not just courting couples, surely? I am a woman "of a certain age" but I would always hold a door for anyone of any age or sex who was carrying a load or having some other difficulties. Perhaps it's an age thing!

Anonymous said...

I think your dating/courtship strategy really depends on what it is you want in a man. Not all of us want the same thing.

I wanted a man who could respect and love a professionally-ambitious, outgoing, assertive woman. So, consistent with that, I always, always, always called the men I was interested in. There may have been some who were turned off by being the pursed rather than the pursuer -- but, if so, it was good for me that they were turned off. By being myself (i.e. assertive and willing to make the first move), I weeded out those men who didn't like that aspect of my personality and attracted those men with whom I was compatible.

Trying to be "delicate and feminine" would not have worked for me. I might have attracted men who wanted a "delicate and feminine" woman and, in the end, those men and I would not have been compatible. It seems to me that being yourself is the best dating/courtship strategy there is.

-- Pendragon

LadyLydiaSpeaks said...

I was deathly ill each time I was pregant (5 times) and my husband completely took over the homemaking.He didn't do it very well but at least he could get something to eat, wash a few dishes, put in laundry, iron a shirt. He had to carry me sometimes to the bathroom and he brought his work home so he could look after me. I wonder sometimes if the modern men will still be "in love" when their wives get sick.Now that takes a lot of dedication. It is something to consider.

Anonymous said...

I have sons and it is very difficult to find a girl who would like to be courted. The vast majority are very bold and independent. I spend a lot of time praying for God to lead them to the right one!

Anonymous said...

I live in the northeastern United States and it has been my experience that most men open doors for women. Certainly, most men in a professional environment do so where I work. I don't really care whether someone holds a door open for me or not (although, if anything, I would personally prefer not to be singled out to have a door held open for me just because I am female).

I do think the door-holding thing is blown out of proportion sometimes. Sometimes people assume that holding a door is the be-all and end-all of good manners. I have seen women assume someone is a good guy just because he holds open a door. I have seen men assume that holding a door automatically qualifies them as good guys; yet, sometimes these same door-holding men have an underlying contempt for women.

I have read somewhere that the more civilized a culture, the less need there is for elaborate displays of manners. The formalities are less important when people are treating each other with real respect. That's how I feel about door-holding. Door holding tells you very little about whether a man respects women -- which is really the important thing, isn't it?

-- Pendragon

Lady M said...

I have to agree with USAincognito. In the South in the USA, the young men, are, in general still mostly trained to be gentlemen. The north, less so (and depending on where in the north - ie NE, way less likely to be taught so). I lived in the South for 15 years and returning to the North was literally a rude awakening. I am thankful that my MIL trained my husband to be a gentleman (probably would not have gotten to engagement if she had not, lol!).

We are training our son to be a gentleman (and our daughter to be a lady). We attend a family integrated church full of families training their children the same way. My 7 year old regularly surprises people when we are out and about and opens doors for people. I have only seen one "ugly" look for him doing that. The older generation knows to smile and say thank you. I actually had a young person try to shove past us when my son was holding the door for us. I simply turned and stuck my pregnant belly in his path and gave the young person a dirty look, lol - he got the idea that perhaps he should wait his turn. Anyway, don't give up all hope - at least for the younger group there is a new generation that is being trained to be proper ladies and gentlemen - if only there were more parents doing the same. Sigh.

Catherine R. said...

Much like what some of the women have said here, I will say that there are too many women who don't want to be courted. They truly are brainwashed to find it offensive if a man wants to pay for their dinner or they think it's demeaning to wait for him to call. This is so misguided yet I feel sorry for some of the guys out there too.

Jeannine said...

Great post, Anna!
We just had our church wedding and I am so thankful for the wonderful gift God gave me in my husband.
It is not easy to find a good man, but they definately are out there. And I agree that it is often the quieter ones we don't notice right away. I know finding a man to be one's husband is not easy and I (unfortunately) made far too many mistakes myself in this journey before I met my husband.
We did not court but dated (in the European meaning of the word), but we were both looking for a spouse-to-be, not just some fun, short-term, we'll-see-what-happens relationship.

Kelly said...

"if we act like ladies who need to be courted, we will attract those men who will treat us like princesses and remain our knights when they win our hand in marriage."
Well said Anna!!! I'm going to teach my daughter to be and act like a lady and to expect and require men to act like gentlemen.
There are good, honest, old fashioned men out there. I agree with you they are usually more modest in behavior. My hubby is anyway. He's a darling. And now with our daughter in the mix he's really going all out to treat me well because as he said, "The behavior she sees me do toward you is going to effect how she expects men to treat her." He's trying to set the bar really high too. ;-)

Bethany Hudson said...

"The kind, reliable, trustworthy, steady, hardworking, supportive men are often quiet and modest - and those who try to draw attention to themselves are often precisely the ones you should stay away from."

This is so true, Anna! I think this is something to take note of if you're one of those young ladies who would like to be courted. I was the first girl that my husband ever dated (Yes, we dated, but with our eyes toward marriage, so it was much more like a courtship than standard American college dating). In high school, no one would even give him a second thought--because he didn't "put himself out there." Just as decent women don't throw themselves at men, the same is often true of decent guys. You have to keep your eyes peeled for the keepers, because they're probably not going to come banging down your door. They're going to wait until God leads them.


Anonymous said...

Anna wrote: "Years ago, I became infatuated with someone who didn't show signs of being interested in me. Had I been raised with the knowledge that the woman must be courted, it would have stopped right then. Instead, I continued to pursue him. He turned out to be self-centered, exploitative, and abusive on top of all."

I could have written that! I wouldn't say there were no signs of interest from the guys, but any shred of attraction or flirtation would then cause me to try to "help" a guy pursue me by giving him my number, letting him know via a friend I was interested, etc. It just makes me cringe now!

One of two things happened...1. these guys just toyed around with my emotions for a while, to pass the time, knowing full well that I wasn't "the one." (When a man finds the one, I don't care how shy he is...he'll usually find a way to ask a woman out. My experience is that they do that for the ones they really want. I just didn't trust that I would find a man like that one day so I felt the need to "help things along". So many messages from the sexual revolution, women's magazines, my friends etc. said, go ahead, pursue the man, it's the 90s!)

The second thing that happened was, because I pursued them, they assumed that I would get sexual with them very quickly, and felt cheated when that wasn't the case. I am not saying it was right or wrong for them to assume that, but the men I pursued assumed that if you are "modern" enough to call me, then you're probably "modern" enough to have casual sex with me as well. (I was in my "helping a guy pursue me" mode before I became a serious Christian, but even then, I was not promiscuous and got tired of the men I pursued assuming that I was.)

Finally, after surrendering my self to God, I decided to do things God's way. And it seemed to me that all through the Bible, the man pursued the woman and was meant to be head of the household.

Just one example that comes to mind, Proverbs 30:18-19 "There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not: The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid."

Now I hope I am not misinterpreting that (and please tell me if I am) but I saw that proverb as saying, the way of a man with a maiden is a beautiful, mysterious, wonderful thing, like an eagle in the air...there is a natural beauty and wonder to it, which I was sabotaging by taking the man's role of pursuing.

So, after some soul searching, reading, praying and looking at my past, I decided to try something new. I decided to let the men ask for my number, ask me out, etc. I also decided to stop feeling like I had to jump in to offer to pay just because I man bought me an iced tea and turkey sandwich! If a guy seemed interested, but didn't ask me out, I was friendly and receptive, but I didn't "help" him by giving him my number. I just sat back and waited for him to court me. If he didn't like me enough to take that risk, I wrote him off. I didn't wish him any ill will, I just let him go emotionally.

Well, fast forward several years later. I am now married to a wonderful man who pursued me. He asked for my number, he asked me out, he paid for most dates, etc. He doesn't see me as a weak flower without a mind of my own. In fact, he often says he loves the fact that I am intelligent and so emotionally expressive. But to him, I am a prize, a prize he had to win by making the first move and actually calling me on the phone, asking me out, making restaurant reservations, etc.

I am married now and I would say to the single women...if you are thinking you will somehow be seen as weak for letting a guy pursue you...why not try it? Try it for a few kind, look your best, but don't try to force an outcome. Put yourself in a situation where there are men (whether it's online dating, church, whatever) and let the men come to you. If it takes a while...wait. My husband didn't ask me out the first time he met me. Other people encouraged me to ask HIM out. But by this time, I had learned my lesson. We knew each other casually for over a year before he asked me out. In the meantime, I dated other men who did ask me out, prayed, worked on my hobbies, etc.

I waited for him to court me...and now, we have the rest of our lives to be together. So far, it has been a great marriage, beyond my wildest dreams.

I find that even the Christian women at my church sometimes want to jump into letting a guy know she likes him, calling him, etc. I just try, with graciousness and empathy, to tell them my story over and over again.

Men aren't women. They are wired differently than us. Just because a man values courting a woman does not mean he's a brute. I have found it to be the exact opposite. The men who pursued me were, for the most part, always kinder and more accepting of me than the ones I pursued.

It just makes me sad that some women think that pursuing a man makes them stronger. My experience has been, I felt stronger and more natural when I finally let men court ME. And now, I have a great marriage...this isn't just a theory of mine. My life has proved it to me.

But oh...when I think back to those times! Slipping my phone number to a man, asking him to dance...eek! cringe! But it taught me humility and I did eventually meet the right person, and let him court me, so I guess it was all part of the journey. I just hate to see other single women making the same mistakes I did.


Anonymous said...

I'm probably not the average type of person who comments on your blog, but I have to say that I've been reading it quite frequently and it's given me lots of things to think about. I'm actually a woman in my twenties, in graduate school, and consider myself quite a feminist. But I also appreciate the domestic arts, especially cooking which is a passion for me. We agree and disagree on many issues, but I always appreciate your perspective, so I keep reading!
This particular post has got me thinking.
My boyfriend (and we are dating, not too similar to the courtship which you described with your husband, but a year into the relationship and I'm sure he's the one) is the kindest and also most chivalrous man I've known. I used to not like such things, but since I've been with him I've come to appreciate these sweet gestures. Opening doors for me, especially when he unlocks my side of the car first so I can get in, then he goes around and gets in his own side. Bringing me flowers, sometimes for no reason. Bringing me coffee, unexpected, when he picks me up for something. The list goes on and on. He's wonderful. But I didn't always appreciate these things.
I can understand why some women aren't that interested in those actions, and so I can understand when some men don't act that way. But it is a treat to be, well, treated!

I guess I just felt that since I've been reading for a while that I would stop and say hi.


Anonymous said...

Joslyn here again...ok so apparently I am misinterpreting that I thought it was a nice description of nature and courtship, but some commentaries say that it is about an adulterous woman, because that comes later in the proverbs...? This is why I try not to comment on scripture...I am relatively new to reading the Bible and take things out of context.

But my point is, there are many other parts of the Bible where the men court the women. Additionally, the happiest marriages I have seen in real life are the ones where the man pursued the woman.


Anonymous said...

Ok, Joslyn here yet again, this is my last post on the topic LOL! Anyway, now I am reading some commentaries that say Proverbs 30:18 is not related to the one after it. So perhaps the way of a man with a maiden is, in fact, meant as something wonderful and mysterious, as I first thought when I read it? This is what happens when you ignore the Bible for the first 36 years of your life... I have only been reading for the past couple years. All I can do is pray that God will open it up to me and that I will not let any other human commentary go above God's leading as I read God's word. I know I have a lot to learn though and am always open to instruction from people I trust.

Proverbs 30 aside, there are many other things in the Bible that prompted me to relax and let the man pursue me, not step in and try to force an outcome that was never meant to be. Things like "Do not awaken love before it's time" comes to mind, all those verses about trusting God, waiting on the Lord, etc.

I finally got it through my head that God wants me to be cherished by a man and that He would lead that man to me...I didn't have to play the man's role (or for that matter, attempt--with disastrous results--to play God's role). I could just be myself and wait for the right man to pursue me. This took time, but I decided I would rather get married later in life to the right person than earlier in life to the wrong person.

As you can see, I am very passionate on this subject. I just hate to see so many women whittling away their sense of specialness by chasing after men, all the while telling themselves that this is the more liberated, intelligent, free option. To me, it became emotional bondage to have to always think, what can I say/do to pursue him now? It didn't ever feel natural to me as a woman. And you know what, I think I did a disservice to the men I pursued as well. It distracted them from finding the women they liked enough to really court and pursue. It wasn't good for anyone involved.

I am not a Bible expert, but I do have a great marriage, to a husband who adores me in my strength and in my weakness. So that is why I try so hard to speak to single women about these issues. I was so lost for so long, and the things that I thought were liberating me (e.g., "just call him! you're a free modern woman!") were actually keeping me trapped.

Anonymous said...

I have been living in South-Western VA for over 5 years, was raised in Southern CA by parents from the South, and can definitely tell you that there is a difference in how men treat women out here. One thing, is more people are married out here. In CA, you have 40 year old men who act like children (I know this because my middle-aged aunt and my friends who had single mothers in CA have dated men who I, in my early 20s, deem immature). This is ridiculous! Men need to stop acting immature.

I believe it is a serious cultural problem (and is even spreading to the South) and is the reason for the breakdown of society. Believe it or not and contrary to what society says, people's purpose on earth (just like animals) is to reproduce (and not to be 'happy'). Without reproduction, there is no society.

I do much counseling in my work and almost all of the cases are from old, singe women who have health problems and have no one. Yes, it is fine to say 'I'm not going to have any kids' when you're young or wait until it's too late and not be able to but these women learn to late what happens when you have cancer, bladder or intestinal issues, stroke, or a myriad of other issues (some people have them all) and you have no one and no money to pay someone to take care of you. It breaks my heart when I have to talk to these women especially those who ended up alone because of society and not by choice. I know people who say that they'll have their siblings' kids take care of them. Many kids don't take care of their own parents who would add their aunts and uncles as a burden? Soon, most countries will have populations where there are more elderly people than younger, working people. This means that these people will have to work harder to take care of the excess elderly people and have less children as a result causing a rapid decline in population. The elderly will be at the mercy of the system as there will not be enough young people to take care of them. Not enough people also means that there will not be enough money going to governments, meaning higher taxation.

And yes, it is a big deal for someone, guys and girls, to open doors for someone because they are at least acknowleging someone is behind him/her. Having a door slam in your face by others is a huge indicator that these people have no consideration for others and if they can't even do something this simple, they're definitely not going to help a stranger in need. Growing up in CA, I have dropped papers and books in school and all people did were walk on, over, or around them. My pregnant aunt's car broke down and no one, no one stopped to help her. In the South, someone will always pull over. There has never been a time where I was not helped out here (warning: don't ask for directions in the South). During funeral processions, everyone pulls over with some even getting out of their cars. There is a greater respect for people out here there there is in superficial, selfish S. CA. Yes, I may be generalizing but I at least feel noticed as a human being in the South whereas in CA, I not once had a date or even a guy look at me (and it's not because I'm hideous, I did use to model) but no one can live to the high standards in Orange County.

The only problem I have with the South is that most people meet their mates in high school or earlier and are already married by the time they graduate. This leaves those who have committment phobia left. There is a lower education level here than in CA but despite this, the people seem happier and more satisfied with what they have (and not constantly striving for what they can get).


Kristy said...

Beautifully said, Anna! There are lots of varying opinions on the roles of men and women and how they should relate to one another in dating/courtship; I can say from experience (as you can) that the "old fashioned" way works!

You see, I was raised the "old fashioned" way: guys should call girls, men should be chivalrous, and women should be ladies. I married a knight in shining armor (who definitely pursued me!) and, 6 years later, am still being blessed by his gentle, courteous, and generous nature. There were times when I was an unmarried young woman that I felt disappointed over a friendship with a guy not turning into something "romantic", simply because I wouldn't take the role as the pursuer. Now that I am married I'm SO thankful I waited for a man who was willing to take the bull by the horns and win my heart!

~Kristy @ Homemaker's Cottage

deb said...

As always, you write an interesting post Ann!

Anonymous said...

Hi Anna....what a great post. My older daughter & I read it together (she's 16). So much of what you've written are things I've tried to impress upon both my girls. We also read the comments from your other readers, & I have found many points of agreement with some of them. It can be difficult to be patient enough to wait for "the right one", but I believe it's what we must do. Nothing wrong with that!


earthly jane said...

I for one feel I am blessed in every sense of the word that I have a husband who works hard to provide for our family, opens doors for me, brings me flowers and follows each meal with "that was a mighty fine meal!"
This is the way that he was raised. His father is the same way!

I am so glad that I'm not single anymore. Men like my husband are few and far between!

Great post!

Laura said...

I think you are right. But it also depends what you are doing and how you are meeting people. Maybe it sounds strange, but I would love a traditional family and husband, despite not being religious. Men who are not religious often don't understand why or how a relationship like you are describing works.

After a relationship turned bad on me, I decided to work on being a modest feminine woman, and in fact, I met no one, no man at all was interested for 4 years. Eventually, I got a bit more proactive, but it was discouraging that the men I came across couldn't appreciate a woman who wasn't sharing the burden of romance in exactly the same way they were.

I have pretty much given up on finding someone who I like and who wants the same things as me, but it is nice to read about your's and other's success.

Karen said...

Good post! I understand totally where you're coming from and it is true that chivalry is all but dead. And then you think about how the guy who is chivalrous must feel when he does something nice for a girl and she blows him off like it's an insult. I'm all for old fashioned manners but really in this day and age it's all but impossible to do.

I've also read that a lot of women are upset by the fact men treat the more good-looking among us this way but not others. I personally have seen this happen with guys who just want to send they message that you aren't good enough for them but *she* is. It kinda misses the entire point!

Anonymous said...

But a girl's got to be careful not to go to the other extreme. Even Jane Austen's heroines knew they had to get out there on the dance floor if they wanted a chance at winning someone's hand.

Sometimes, a girl who is too modest a keeper of the home will just be passed on by, unnoticed. Especially if she's not religious and has no church folks to set her up.

Mia said...

I was going to write a comment to your post, but after reading all the very thourough and well thought out responses, I'm over-whelmed!! But I'm more overwhelmed with joy--As a 17 year old stay at home daughter, posts like these affirm my faith in standing true to what I believe, knowing that God has my future mate out there that's going God's way, not the cultures'. Thanks again!!
--Mia from Aspiring Homemaker

Anonymous said...

You have been feeling ill a lot lately. Any news you may want to share with us?

Learning To Love said...

Amen! What a beautiful post.
As a Mom of 3 boys (& the only woman in a house of males), I am raising these precious future leaders in the way of the Lord and teaching them how to treat a lady; since I'm their "first" lady. Their Daddy is helping too (mostly without even realizing it), God bless him. :-)

God bless you, and thank you!

Asia said...

Amen sis. thi is a great post.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anna

I feel I must write in reference to the post about why men don't court women anymore. I feel hurt and offended by the way this article was written. I am a single Catholic woman and despite our difference in faiths and countries I have always read your blog with interest, including articles discussing directly about life as a married woman. However, I thought saying "the situation in the singles' world makes me happy I'm married", was alarmist and thoughtless. You too were once part of the singles' world like all the married women who has posted comments here. I believe marriage is to be viewed as a vocation (like joining a convent or becoming a priest)and not some sort of 'social club' where those who are married point and pass scorn over single people. Whether I remain single or marry is connected with which path God opens up for me later in life, not necessarily the consequence of a negative and disruptive society.
I am sorry I feel this way as normally I like what you write.
Thank you for reading my opinion.
God bless

Anonymous said...

What a great post! I couldn't agree more. If I could go back in time, boy would I change some things I did. Yes, the nice guys, the ones you want, will come after you if they want you.

And then once you are married, I think it's important to trust in the marriage and be a woman. I always say to my husband, "I'm so glad you work outside the home and take of us all so well, so I can stay home."

I think we have been taught to keep our guard up too much.

Miss Amy Smarty said...

I agree with what you are saying!

However, the word "court" is something I try to stay away from. I have to consciously stop myself from rolling my eyes because of the "courtship" movement that started when I was in high school. Mainly it was code for "I don't date, I'm too good for dating, I'm 'dating Jesus', I'm androgynous, etc." I am all for boys treating girls respectfully, but I believe that this type of thinking has further delayed marriage in many communities. I'm mainly speaking of the Evangelical Christian church (which I know is different than your situation). Men are so busy being "nice Christian guys" that they forget that women must be pursued , and an interest in sex is a good thing. I've just seen too many cookie cutter relationships that formed this way...only to end in divorce later on.

It is probably just semantics. But the word "court" has connotations of being "better" and "more holy" than ordinary dating...when it's often just the same thing, but more controlled by eager watchdogs. I had no one to "protect me" from the world of dating like a lot of these blogs propose. I had to use my own willpower and brain to get through it, and I think I've come out pretty well :)

Thank you for your insightful posts!

Mrs. Anna T said...


I'm sorry my words seemed to mean what they meant to you. In no way did I mean to scorn single people. I just stated basic facts: yes, the situation in the singles' world can be a jungle, like other ladies here agreed. And yes, I'm happy to be done with meeting new men and happily married.

I understand that for Catholics, it's different. Jews don't have priests who are intended to remain single. All our great rabbis were married. We believe that 40 days before a child is born, a voice comes from Heaven and says, "this man is to marry that woman". Every child. Not everyone meet their intended match because we don't live in a perfect world, but in Judaism, there is no such thing as vocation to remain single.

And yes, of course God Almighty will ultimately decide what will happen to us regarding singleness or marriage. *But*, no one can deny the institute of marriage greatly deteriorated when men were robbed of their masculine role and women were pushed outside their homes.

Mrs. Anna T said...


As you rightly said, this is all about semantics. English isn't my native language and I don't live in the US. I could have just as well said "dating for marriage" and not "courtship".

I would say "shidduch", but then only the Jewish readers would understand me. :-)

Anonymous said...

I very much enjoyed this post and the discussion. I agree that a young woman should be treated with the respect, dignity and courtesy befitting a princess by her suitor during their courtship (and afterwards!), however a young woman should also prove herself worthy of this respect.

Many times I've observed young men who’ve overlooked even pretty girls who merely wish to be treated as pampered princesses for a plainer girl with character.

My story illustrates this. During my courting days I expected to be treated as a pampered princess and would often become difficult if things didn’t go my way. Because I was attractive the men I dated initially found my spoilt little ways endearing – but only for a while. Eventually they became tired pandering to my wishes, propping me up when I was ‘feeling down’ or facing one of my many ‘crises’ and went on to marry women who would make useful wives and mothers. I spent many days in tears trying to work out what went wrong. Despite being pretty, outgoing and fun-loving I remained on that proverbial shelf while other young women my age got married and started families. Fortunately God has been good to me. I met a traditional man that was happy to put up with my ways (am am very fortunate). Today, ten years on I am ashamed of the young woman I used to be and praise God for leading me to the people and resources (like this blog and similar) that have raised my awareness of the traits of character that were amiss during my early adult years.

A good man needs a woman who is useful by his side not merely a princess to be kept and pampered (our pioneering women provide a good example of worthy wives – they worked by their husband’s side in their sphere as wife and mother to build our countries). A wise man will be attracted by good qualities of character which will be made evident a young lady’s behavior and actions. Qualities such as industry, resilience to life’s trials, a sense of responsibility, thriftiness, wisdom, kindness, charity and a woman who values homemaking and raising a little family.

Buffy said...

"Years ago, I became infatuated with someone who didn't show signs of being interested in me. Had I been raised with the knowledge that the woman must be courted, it would have stopped right then. Instead, I continued to pursue him."

Ouch, been there as have most of my female friends. Never works out. So much better when the man does the pursuing.

Beverly said...

You are SO spot on with this!!

I too have been involved with men who "didn't show signs of being interested in me." And unfortunately I only learned too late that these outward manifestations really do reflect a fundamental discord between my values and theirs.

I really do believe that if a man wants to take me out *he should pay*. And unfortunately this is seen as a really out-dated, "unfeminist," "unprogressive," viewpoint, and has really narrowed the amount of men who consider me "worth" dating. But I think, in all my experiences, the kind of men who don't want to take a woman out if he has to pay are not the kind of men who I would want to be dating anyway. :: wry smile ::

I'm very happy for you, that you were able to find such a great husband, in spite of the current sociopolitical climate. <3

Brobdingnagian said...

Well said! I particularly agree with this:

"It's a man's nature to win the woman's heart. "

As I guy, I say, "Exactly Right."

And I think this "winning her heart" thing can be an ongoing thing; during courtship especially the earliest part, but continuing onwards, especially when a man proposes, and on into marriage.

I believe it should be the man who proposes, and the woman who accepts, or rejects. She should be the one who gets to consider his offer, and to say yes, or to say no. She should have complete dignity and complete freedom. He should be the one who says, "Please, I can't live without you, I love you, please marry me".

And it doesn't end when she says yes, if she says yes, it's just the next step in the dance. Then the wedding, and the next step, and the next. When the couple is very old, and they are still together, then they are still dancing.


Anonymous said...

Ladies, tell your single friends to read "The Rules: Time-tested Secrets for Capturing the Heart of Mr. Right," by Ellen Fein & Sherrie Schneider. They give very SPECIFIC advice on HOW to act during courtship/dating. For those of us who were raised and educated as feminists, such specific advice is really valuable; it can be hard to figure out exactly where one is going wrong. The authors don't seem to be Christian, but the Bible is where these ideas ultimately came from (except for one chapter, which will be obvious!). They show how to guard your heart and let the man pursue. The Rules I and II have been combined into one book:
I can say from personal experience that The Rules work! :-)
--A former feminist, converted to Christianity, and now happily married.

Shawna said...

One of the things that I learned was to look for the guys who most girls keep giving the "but you're too nice to me" or "let's just be friends" message. My fiance is one of those guys, and he got really tired of hearing that. When he got the "you're too nice" one from a girl, he sort of lost it and said, "Well, what do you want me to do, hit you?" Too many girls out there seem to think your boyfriend should treat you like garbage, and if a guy is nice, he must be a wuss or something. Hey, I'm glad they left me my diamond Chris and went for coal, or, rather, charcoal briquettes.

Anonymous said...

I appreciate courteous behaviour, and attempt to convey it myself--to people of either gender. I have let men "treat" me to dinner, etc.--and I have done the same for them. I have no desire to be "conquered"--I am not a fortress. I am a female human, different from but equal to the male humans around me. True respect, as I believe Pendragon has said, involves the on-the-ground truth of how you treat people when no-one is watching--not just the public gestures that, while lovely, can be empty. I am well-educated, independent, and hard-working--and I love God and my home. Those things are not incompatible, and did not "turn off" worthwhile men, to the best of my recollection.

Let us remember compassion, tenderness, and cheer, before anything else--including what different "sides" tell us about what we should want and how we should behave. We can thus seldom go wrong.

Rolando said...

Well, I got to say this feels so weird. I mean, I'm posting on a ladies site! Anyway, I'm a 21 year old young man who feels a little lost in this sick feminist friendly society. When it comes to my view of life, yes I'm pretty old fashioned. I like giving up my seat to you ladies, I like paying the tab when I'm with a lady and I refuse to have a lady pay for me, I like opening the door and yes, treating you like a princess, etc. Why then don't I have a wife, fiancé or girlfriend? Many reasons:
1 - I am looking for a Biblically Christian and very feminine lady, and those are hard to find!
2 – I can be pretty shy or timid when I approach a potential candidate and thus I don’t put as much effort into the pursuit.
3 – And last but not least….….I really don’t know how to court a lady!
Yes, I don’t know how to court a real lady because I was never taught how. I am ashamed to say this but still, it’s my reality. Though I can have courtesy towards a lady, I really don’t know how to approach a good one romantically. I really have no example to look upon because my father, most uncles, and male cousins are modernist who prefer dating and having mindless sex than to settle down. Although my father is indeed married to my mother, he only did because in the older days men had to commit or marry to their women to have sex! He says he never would have gotten married have he grown up in this generation. The phrase sums up the philosophy of most men I know today, why buy the whole cow when you can get the glass of milk for free. So my father mocks me because I have the idea of settling down with a lady, get married, and have children. Though in all fairness, I’m the only Christian of my family, you can’t blame most men today for the sins of sickos like Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedan (founders and leaders of the feminist movement). So yes I really don’t know how I would approach or court the right lady for me. I’ll just have wait and hope I don’t screw up when I do meet her. Does that mean I’m giving up? Of course not! All I can do for now is pray and have patience.

Sherri said...

I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the matter of dating and courtship. I'm thankful too that I am not single. I've been married for 18 years and while I know that I have a happy marriage, I recently realized that I have a special marriage. The bond I share with my husband is unique and I feel really blessed to have him.

Thanks again!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this post, and for the comments too. I am 33, single, educated, attractive (or so I have heard) and waiting.

My nature is aggressive, and before learning God's way, I actively engaged in the pursuit of men. I have since gained an understanding and appreciation for God's way, which is beautiful. Submitting and surrendering my own ways has been pretty trying, especially when I have had an interest in a particular man. But, I am seeing this process as an opportunity to die to myself, my plans, my ways, and to embrace God's ways, His purpoese for me.

For those of you who are married, and are able to say that you are happy not be a single in these times, do remember to pray for us ladies who are still waiting and hoping, because it can sometimes be a very difficult and lonely road.

CT said...

It's easy to do the pursuing in our culture, even in dancing it has become quite common for the women to ask the men.

Thank you for sharing, it was an excellent reminder.

Christa Taylor

Sarah said...

I found this article on the Ladies Against Feminism website and I must say I fully agree! I am so glad that I found other people on the internet that feel the same way. Here I was thinking that I was the only one. Silly me. :P

Feminists have bullied us into acting against our natural instincts! It is so drummed into our heads at school, by the media on T.V., the radio, the internet, and everywhere else that we have become brainwashed. We are ostracized if we disagree because it isn't "politcally correct." I want a man to take care of me, protect me, and provide for me. Why is that so wrong?

Oh and P.S. how did you manage to not call your husband? Every guy I have dated says that it sounds "stuck up" or "conceited" when I say that I don't want to call them, even when I try to explain that it is a traditional thing and not a diva thing.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, but men dont court women anymore cause women arent worth it. Women want equal right and to be treated as a princes ?? please....

Women in north america need to understand men and women are EQUAL just in DIFFERENT ways. Men have aplace in society and women have a place in society. If you want this "old system" back go back to old ways.

When was the last time you women took care of you husbands, made them happy, did things you normally dont do just for the sake of putting a smile in his face without having a hidden agenda.

I know I will get flamed for this, but its the simple and blunt truth.

I am single, very successful, good looking, quite intelligent and the great majority of women I meet or date have the same profile. "Princess Syndrome"

You want to be treated as a princess, treat your man like a prince.

CT said...

YES! Preach it!

Anonymous said...

Apparently, chivalry is getting to be dangerous towards women nowadays. Men who act gallant are trying to impress women when all of a sudden, they end up deceiving them, harassing them, raping them, and/or killing them. So in other words, it's best that they show chivalry towards women that they know and trust very well rather than towards random female strangers that they see in public because they can find them suspicious, especially when they travel abroad, like in the Middle East and Asia for example.

charles said...

I agree with you, as a single man who is having a problem meeting women because I wont be a thug, asshole or what not, its hard no to be that because you dont get alot of respect by acting like the very man they cry about not being around..

Anonymous said...

To be honest, I am suprised to find this site. I realize all of you are good, honest people, but I'd like know to somethings. Why can't a christian girl make the first move? Why do you not believe that working moms are as good as stay-at-home moms? And by the way, I am a quiet girl who is nice and somewhat feminine, at least I think so. I don't mind chivalry, and I am polite. Most guys aren't that interested. Ladies and gentlemen, why do you think that most guys actually like demure girls? My mom made more than my dad, she also is the boss. My cousin is a stay-at-home daddy. My uncle was a single dad for many years. I don't understand you guys, and I'm curious.

Miss Cate said...

I would agree that it is a good thing to be feminine and to embrace chivalry, but, even in a church setting, it can be difficult to help men understand that it is their responsibility to ask the lady out. The phenomenon of hanging out seems largely to replace that of dating, let alone courtship. I would argue that it is alright to help the gentleman out to a point. If not, they seem to have a very difficult time realizing that the young lady may be interested in a dating relationship.

Anonymous said...

I recently came accross your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.


farmlady said...

After 35 years of being aggressively pursued by damaged men, (who persisted in maladaptive behavior) I found I DID have to at least flirt when I found Mr Right, who was so different because he was so shy and non aggressive.
I have done plenty of studying on Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders and it appears that is the generation we are cursed with here. Yes, the NOW moms were drinking guys under the table and found out too late that they were pregnant, when they had done the first injury to those tiny brains developing. Studies on chicks and mice induced into FASD showed maladaptive behavior such as knocking into the little window repeatedly when trying to get to the food dish, when the normal chicks and mice learned to go around the barrier. It is an amazing study and there is lots available. Yes, my hubby does want to be the breadwinner, however we are suffering from the loss of my much greater income as a nurse. Lucky, we have no children (i am barren), or we would have CPS breathing down our necks I am sure. (They require the "essentials" of running water and refrigeration. And heat.)
If I could get him to go into Nurse training, the problem would be solved, but his stomach is not as strong as mine.

Anonymous said...

I know this post has been around for a long time, but I saw it and felt I wanted to add some understanding from a man's perspective.

Many of us young men nowadays have been raised in an atmosphere of deceit. I grew up as a peaceful, kind and generous person. I developed a strong work ethic, and I'll admit I have certain old-fashioned tendencies. I'd hold a door open for a lady, pay for dinner, bring a rose on a date. I'd try to make them feel special, and I'd always refuse sex (well, for at least the first five dates), no matter how they'd approach me. I'm pathologically incapable of violence towards a woman.

What I discovered was a world where girls would accept a drink and then walk off with a 'thanks' and go back to some other man. (I believed in certain old ways - a man brings a ladies gifts, and if she accepts them it shows she's interested). They'd drink themselves silly and spend hours curled up vomiting. Infidelity seems to be the norm, even fashionable - it's even applauded! There even seems to be a growing violent streak - and I really believe that it is the height of cowardice for a woman to hit a man who just won't hit her back.

Women seem to develop no skills for the home either. I learned to care for myself completely. I cook, clean, perform any DIY task I set my mind to, and I still hold a job as a network administrator for a major computer company. I never expected a 'little woman', nor a woman to just stay in the home - I wanted an equal, and would support my partner in any way she chose to live her life, provided she wasn't just a waste of life.

Yes, I admit I want someone who values their self and me, and I admit I want someone with a touch of grace, style and charm (in my eyes) - not a supermodel, not an obsessive, and I have always believed that if you find someone attractive, you find them attractive - regardless of society's fashions.

The other big no-no for me, and is just too common, is single mothers. I know this is, by current womens' magazines standards, an unforgiveable sin, but I just don't want to raise another man's spawn - at least not when she had the . It's that simple. I see the other man as the cuckoo who laid it's eggs in another bird's nest.

But perhaps my biggest fault is that I've tried so hard to be so good in so many ways, and now I've started to lose my modesty over it (hence this near-whiny post). Being self-effacing and a little shy, and a nice guy, has never ever found me someone decent, it's always landed interest from the selfish, cheating and grubbing. As long as women constantly chase the emotionally unavailable, the distant, the difficult and the incapable it seems that's how I'll have to act.

And I weep a bit inside whenever I get interest for behaving that way.

srohr said...

Hello. I know this is way late but I found this column.
I'm 37, single and never married with a 15 year old son. I was raised Methodist but don't practice a lot like I should... anyway, I was used so many times that I gave up on dating or marriage fully - back in 02 was my last date or sexual intimacy with anyone.
I have learned that men just want one thing from me and even those who claim they don't, once they find out I AM remaining celibate til I find the right man, leave me or end up cheating. I gave up. I do not trust any man any more, sadly; yet my cousins found spouses who are wonderful.

Of course they have careers and a car and are worth something. I don't drive, work a min wage mcdonalds job and have squat.. i'm trying to fix that by being in online college working on my bachelors degree so I pray once I get that and start my career and have my own place finally and a car, I'll get the right man who will appreciate me for who I am and not just want to have sex and then go away like most men do now a days.

It's sad how it's all about the conquest now. If you don't have sex, you're a prude. Most people want to test drive the car before buying it; aka make sure they're good in bed before committing. I hate that so much. People also divorce too fast over the smallest things. No one cares any more and all I want is to be married to someone for life.

I've HAD a few good hearted men express interest in me and I know full well they'd never cheat or use me or anything -but I'm not attracted to them in a sexual way and that's the main thing you need. If there's no attraction, it won't work. :(
can't win for losing.....

srohr said...

To the man who posted anonymously above me: I can see why you're single probably as much as you can see why IM single.....

You won't date someone because they're a single mother? That's sad, really sad. If the parent's are not together any more, that's a common now a days; it doesn't make it the childs fault. And which ever parent the child is with, that parent is probably a great person and could be a good future wife/husband.

Condemming someone for being a single parent. How ancient of you.

reformed681 said...

In the book, Finding the Right Woman for You, written by Michelle Mckinney Hammond, she states, “A woman’s approach to you will foretell how the rest of the relationship will go.” (page 140). She further states, “You might not notice at the start that something is wrong… This woman is aggressive, decisive, and yes, she will come after you. She will start a relationship and pull you through it before you know you want to be in one… She will never submit.” (Pages 131-132)

miss leigh said...

this post is very helpful. we are having a class debate about it is okay for women to court men? i think im going to apply some. thanks:)

Springer said...

well im a guy from washington state and when it comes down to it if i believe u can do ur self then i let u do it ur self or if i dont really care about it i just say so u still alive, u got a leg/s, and u got an arm/s so do it ur self.
but i do some of the knightly thing and im only 17 and been doing it since i was 5 i think. when it comes down to it u cant say anything about the states on the west side of the rockie Mt's and down here in the south states most of that is BS because it usually ppl around 40+ which does that and even then it really is rare to c that type of stuff

Anthony said...

So you want your cake and to be able to eat it too? Oh we want equal paying rights and all these other things but my husband should still be the worker and I just want those rights hanging in the background as my backup. Bullshit!! A man needs to ask and pay, but then say we hit a bump that neither of use can handle so we end it. Who's out more??? Women like you annoy me. If you want the door, the bill paid and the man to be the work horse. Give up the rights you've gained that make you equal to them in aspects that aren't social

Anonymous said...

My Mom, Dad, and I would have loved to see me married to someone who didn't expected me to "pull my weight" financially but I was young and blind. 25 years later, I'm still the one having to pick up the slack and earned my 2nd degree while hubby has no drive or plan to move up at work. Ladies, be sure your man makes plans for himself and his family. If he isn't a planner, get ready for a mightly long and bumpy life.

Juegos de Ben 10 said...

I have to agree with USAincognito. In the South in the USA, the young men, are, in general still mostly trained to be gentlemen.

Anonymous said...

it is more like the women that do not want to get married anymore. there are a lot of us straight men that would like to get married, but cannot meet any decent women today. i was married twice myself at one time, and was a very caring and loving husband that never cheated on them. but they did cheat on me. women have definitely changed since women's lib took over. most of them now are filthy pigs, especially the way they act now along with their no good attitude. so us men cannot blame ourselves for the low life that they now have become.

Anonymous said...

In this day and age, a man could be arrested for attempted rape, just by opening a door for a girl. For a lot of women "opening doors" = "leading her on" = "trying to rape her"

Anonymous said...

to be honest there aren't a lot of nice feminine women out there. generally modern western women have slept with about a thousand guys and when they are getting old (read past their use by date) say 29-39 they are looking for poindexter to be a sperm donor and a wallet. why would any guy want to be a person of convienience to a girl who squandered her youth, sex and feminity on hundreds of bad boys and used her sex as a commodity to get into clubs or score free holidays etc.
I mean youre the same really (to the columnist). You said, ''Years ago, I became infatuated with someone who didn't show signs of being interested in me. Had I been raised with the knowledge that the woman must be courted, it would have stopped right then. Instead, I continued to pursue him. He turned out to be self-centered, exploitative, and abusive on top of all. I realized it probably wasn't the way''.

So there you go. Even you were 'banging away with a bad boy' and your poor current husband (read schmuck) got you second hand at the very least. Used and with your best years behind you.

So tell me why should men pay for women who probably have jobs already, squandered their youth and feminity on a series of shags and later on decide they are tired of working and want a good guy to pay for them to have a family?

And I havent even mentioned that there is not one good reason for a man to marry in America or most western countries.

You dont need to marry to be in love
you dont need to marry to have children
All men get from marriage is a blood sucking parasite who gets cash and prizes on exiting (read divorce) when she decides she is bored. The legal system rapes men in divorce and younger guys have seen what happens to older guys so they are '' war weary'' seeing all the beaten war veterens out there (read divorced men).

Until women close their legs. Learn some domestic skills and reacquire femininty I cant see it changing.

Mrs. Anna T said...

Just to say, I was 22 when I married. Don't see how that qualifies as "having my best years behind me."

Anonymous said...

The sad part that happening in today society is that women have forgetten to be ladies now the girls seem to be courting the men and the worst scenario is that they sleeping with them and even just moving with them and not getting married and just seem that the traditional ways it was done have been lost in this world pay attention to the media the girls are different girls like Rihanna or girls like the ones who singing black death metal being tattoo and being hard up just make the men feel a bit lost sadly women nowadays are tossed in a fisty competition with the girls who are just not caring in being ladies and being decent excuse me if i have to say this but if the girls would stop opening their legs and get married the way they supposed to life wouldve been more different all this liberation has screwed up the values and the real way of living called my old fashion but i prefer it that way. men should court a women.. take your time and please stop acting like men ladies..

Anonymous said...

as a straight man, meeting women has become a game that cannot be won. they play very hard to get, and being in my late fifties makes it hard enough for me. i seem to meet the very nasty ones, with their no good attitude as well. no fault of mine, since these type of women are certainly a lot different then years ago. many women now are lesbians today, and that does add to the problem as well. i was married twice at one time, and i was a very caring and loving husband that never cheated on them. they both did cheat on me, and it was no fault of mine.

Anonymous said...

It sadden me that men treat women now adays like trash and want women to treat them like if they something of value remember men who does this arent worth it these are the losers and warning signs that tell the ladies to stay away .
Men need to be gentlemen at all times if that fails sorry to say they arent men . Girls dont settle for less trust me there decent men out there and willing to treat a lady like she deserve dont settle for lazy douchbags. they just hidding and trying to act confident i knew this guy who told me a story about how he was interested in a girl and he was going to invite her to a drink coffee and the guys told him if he was crazy to ignore her and let him buy him come on this is disgusting and if i had a male son i be ashame of this type of behavior what are they pimps.. get a life douchebags..

Anonymous said...

I have never been the type of to pursue a man. I just don't think that's the natural order of things. If a man is interested, you won't have to guess. I am 32 and single wondering if I'll ever get married. I believe that a man should be the head of the household, but it seems damn near impossible to find a man who wants to actually lead today. They don't want to commit, they just want to hook up. After a particularly hard break up 6 months ago, I promised myself I wouldn't date anyone in the new year. I broke my promise after only one month and I'm realizing that I need to be completely single and wait on who God has for me. I'm praying he has someone for me. I just so tired of disappointment.

Anonymous said...

it is the women that are at fault here, since they have changed so very BADLY today. they seem to blame us MEN, but they are the ones with the very BAD ATTITUDE, and are so very hard to TALK too now. i certainly agree with that other person that said that. when i try to start a CONVERSATION with a woman that i would like to meet, she will tell me to go away. and do not bother me. can't blame myself, for trying. this is the absolute reason, why it is so difficult meeting GOOD WOMAN NOW.

the_sparrow said...


I think the problem right now is we're facing the same problem we've always had -- women want it all. And now that women CAN have it all, they still expect men to be providers (in case things don't pan out). Point to me any career woman who wouldn't just love the idea of a man being a stay-at-home dad BUT if she were to choose to stay at home, for him to be the provider.

By the way, you should be careful with your words.. women have come such a long way. If it weren't for women COMING to where they are, you wouldn't be writing this blog. In fact, you wouldn't even KNOW that you had other options. Your world would have been very limited. I appreciate what you are saying here; I just don't think it's adequate to point out that women have 'ruined it' for us.

Anonymous said...

there are certainly many men today that would love to meet that special woman for us, and have that commitment with them. but the big problem we have now, women seem to be into other women today. i never realized that we have so many lesbians nowadays adding to the problem. certainly makes it a lot worse for us men now, and we are really not to blame here. since i am a good normal straight man, i certainly would love to have a normal straight woman for me. are there any left?

dave said...

Maybe guys have stopped approaching because there is no upside.I have NEVER approached a woman.Either she comes to me or I do not know that she is interested
in me at all.
This takes longer, but the longer I can wait, I will be approached by a woman who is out of time to play games.

Anonymous said...

In response to anonymous above talking about the women who are past their used by date and squandering their youth. Yep that sounds like me,yes a single mother, however, it appears that I have experience enough to know who I am now as a woman, and as a consequence of having learned from the mistakes of my squandered youth am currently being pursued by the most gorgeous amazing man and quite happy to be so knowing that I am totally worth it!

Anonymous said...

As I read Anna's comments I couldn't help but think (forget about the feelings), how distant her ideals are from the realities of not merely today St. Patrick's Day 2014 but the last few St. Pat's days likely as far back as the 1964. Think please; The Beatles arrived in America as most ALL generations today are aware and right after JFK was shot. THAT is a longgggg time ago Anna and company. No couples then questioned their roles for the most part however, but, yet, technologies have taken us as far as a "Telstar" (a #1 hit Christmas of 63) from that scene! ! doesn't mean I'm MAD but "Princesses" and "Fairy Tales" ONLY existed to any extent in Monarchies OR in marriages when men were allowed to be, persuaded to be, encouraged to be the provider/leader. THAT IS GONE & never to return. roof for all of you just may lie in music beyond of course God's plan > recall a one hit wonder? called "In The year 2525" from the year of feminization of men when "Hair" arrived yet Neil Armstrong landed on the Moon? Ok, therein lies the answer that High Technologies have change us not for the betterment either. The Pill cam out too! I wouldn't take that Pill to pull a switcheroo on my hormones for anyone and frankly, one has to be out of their minds to mess with such High Tech. Well, that song should have a rebirth to "IN THE YEAR 2025" since it seems according to the lyrics by Zagar & Evans we are almost there. So Princesses and BTW what about Kings are a pipe-dream. Gender roles are a blurred at best and reversed at worst. Baby Boomers had a great deal to do with this with Sex, Drugs and R & R. Now, to Our Children's Children's Children we have created a chaotic mess wherein 50% are separated/ divorced. The remedy which will never be utilized, is to look back in history and copy what ppl did when marriage and family were intact. Men I believe would be much more receptive to this than women amongst which younger ones have bought into Feminism and it is a huge cause of this calamity because men have not changed yet women have. These facts are based on Empirical Evidence. Yes, to date today is a fearful experience. Men don't HAVE the exposable Income to do all they use to; especially those who have already suffered a divorce with 1 2 3 or more kids to pay Child Support to AND, did it ever cross these mothers' minds that maybe they'd like Equal Time with fathers so Dad doesn't have to pay Child Support even when Mom makes more? Are the children ever asked what they want? No. The prioritization is female first just as the feminist doctrine has planned it. Those still married more often are comprised of the male making more money to keep her IN the relationship since studies bear out that when she makes more she will more often bail out divorcing him. This has been well researched. So I have to point at High Tech being our reason for slowly destroying all that is natural in every area of Human or Physical Geographies.

Anonymous said...

I opened a door for 2 women once when I was in my teens. It's just the way my old fashioned parents raised me. Instead I got an incredulous look of shock and disdain from the 2 women who said " we can open it ourselves thank you very much!"

Anonymous said...

ahahahahah :-))

Women likes to talk, in Italy as in America as everywhere.. but don't want to do nothing.. of course.. Women are looking for good men, they believe is ok to write in a blog about the problems, but none of them - even YOU! - will go to the streets to protest against VOWA and all those laws against men!

I had always thought of woman as possessing those delicate qualities of mind and soul that made her in these respects far superior to man. I had put her on a lofty pedestal, figuratively speaking, and ranked her in certain important attributes considerably higher than man. I worshiped at the feet of the creature I had raised to this height, and, like every true worshiper, I felt myself unworthy of the object of my worship.

But all this was in the past. Now the soft-voiced gentle woman of my reverent worship has all but vanished. In her place has come the woman who thinks that her chief success in life lies in making herself as much as possible like man--in dress, voice and actions, in sports and achievements of every kind.

The world has experienced many tragedies, but to my mind the greatest tragedy of all is the present economic condition wherein women strive against men, and in many cases actually succeed in usurping their places in the professions and in industry. This growing tendency of women to overshadow the masculine is a sign of a deteriorating civilization.

Woman's determined competition with man in the business world is breaking down some of the best traditions--things which have proved the moving factors in the world's slow but substantial progress.

Practically all the great achievements of man until now have been inspired by his love and devotion to woman. Man has aspired to great things because some woman believed in him, because he wished to command her admiration and respect. For these reasons he has fought for her and risked his life and his all for her time and time again.

"Perhaps the male in human society is useless. I am frank to admit that I don't know. If women are beginning to feel this way about it--and there is striking evidence at hand that they do--then we are entering upon the cruelest period of the world's history.

Our civilization will sink to a state like that which is found among the bees, ants and other insects--a state wherein the male is ruthlessly killed off. In this matriarchal empire which will be established the female rules. As the female predominates, the males are at her mercy. The male is considered important only as a factor in the general scheme of the continuity of life.

The tendency of women to push aside man, supplanting the old spirit of cooperation with him in all the affairs of life, is very disappointing to me.

Woman's independence and her cleverness in obtaining what she wants in the business world is breaking down man's spirit of independence. The old fire he once experienced at being able to achieve something that would compel and hold a woman's devotion is turning to ashes.

Women don't seem to want that sort of thing to-day. They appear to want to control and govern. They want man to look up to them, instead of their looking up to him, so.. as a bachelor italian men, i may understand American men who still avoid marriage and i guess they also believe that Women today become the greatest evil, as such, any good men should avoid marriage like a plague!

Dennis Stewart said...

too many women are vicious mean and a few other nasty things,believe in the absurdity of gender equality, and cannot be trusted around other men. Nice men have always been regarded as jerks & fools. Karma has a way of dealing with women and i see it happening more and more, and I really don't give a shit. Women will reap what they sow and no liberal heathen media will convince me otherwise. AH the freedom from woman, nothing like it.!

Anonymous said...

Let me say the following...i have plenty of man after me but I feel bored by them. They are wonderful human beings but something lacking. In relation to women being the "fault" of this lack of small, nice gestures...again...i am sort don't want to offend you but a bit sexist. It is not the woman's fault or the mans fault. Woman and society grew a bit to allow the feminine brain to express in other ways than the conventional and therefore assume other roles...the problem is the society we live in I still abusive and sexiest in relation to woman. Basically what happened was...want to be free? How dare you...okay then you must assume, house, children, money...i just work, assume children...a bit and the rest? Its up to you. I think in the future things will change for a more positive and equilibrated will court women and...woman will court man! If interested of course...and maybe, maybe we can share life and tasks as a team as before in the past...just a different way.

Kind regards,

Estela Gaspar

Anonymous said...

The day we stop the strong independent movement is the day some men may return to the ways of old, the modern day woman believes she also has a pe*** mentally and physically and emasculation is practically more popular than fox hunting only difference is that hunting animals maybe illegal but that doesnt make a man less of a prey to the treatment they get these days.

I pray and hope that I do find someone today but I have to say I envy those that were born in the 40s-70s there was some form of normality.

I am one of those good men though I still practise chivarly and all the "knightly" duties women "expect" but giving my heart is a different story hence why I havent been in relationship in a long time, to live in a time where women have equal parity financially but have access to more benefits than men simply because of gender alone and then you roll family court systems that will inherently favour a woman over than man.

Plus you will still take half of what I worked for even though you may earn more than me when we divorce and then you throw the usual slogan "I dont need a man" its very difficult to see many men willing to settle down to woman who has been raised to see him as nothing more than an annoying brute or some resource that is expected to treat her like a "princess" while she treats him more like a peasant.

I hear the way young boys talk these days and its sad because they union of marriage is more of burden to them now rather than an opportunity to truly settle with someone whole heartedly and live together till death do you both part.

I dont mean to be a bearer of bad news, take it from a knight just because you do what is right does not mean a woman will treat you right, you will attract a few bad ones and they will take advantage of you, just hope you dont change and become the very jerk you wish you were not

Dennis Stewart said...

I was born in 1951. I hear what you say. 1951BF "before feminism"

Anonymous said...

As a woman, I get angry at women who are promiscuous, because they bring down the marketing value of respectable females as well.
Suppose I had a beautiful antique mahogany coffee table worth $500,000. Naturally I'm not going to give it away for free or even let careless people set drinks on it without coasters!
But down the street, women are giving away more attractive coffee tables with the same retail value as mine for a drink! The no-good whores! Only at least, whores need to sleep with men in order to get enough to eat. Those loose women in our society are a notch below prostitutes.
I'm 42 and still a virgin, because men were too busy taking away free coffee tables and scuffing up the ones they didn't want to bring home.

Anonymous said...

Why men have stopped courted women? Well, because they went MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way - of course!

Instead of asking approaching, asking women out, entertaining them, courting them, paying for their drinks, dinners, vacations, etc., instead of risking my emotional/psychological well-being (VERY high risk of rejection, risk of women's bitchiness, etc) as well as financial well-being (divorce would mean that I would lose my kids, house, car and I might even be stuck paying child support and alimony for many years to come), I have decided to eliminate this risk from my life.

I have invested a lot of money and I have bought a VERY realistic sex doll, called “RealDoll” (no, this is not an advertisement). She is so attractive that over 95% of women (including all ages) pale in comparison, to be honest. It has been a few years that I am with Jenny (that's how I call my sweetie) and I have never even had the urge to ask out a woman and even the suggestion of "courting a woman" seems laughable to me and to my few friends who have also invested in a "RealDoll".


Anonymous said...

Male perspective here.

Western Women should expect things to get worse before they get better.

For decades feminism and gynocentric media have taught women to be independent and become career women. That men are not necessary.
Men have finally listened.
There is also no incentive to marry todays promiscuous western women. They spend their peak beauty years jumping from bad boy to bad boy shunning the good guys, In their 30's we dont want them.

Men are behaving rationally and withdrawing from interactions with western women. They dont deserve our chivalry. Foreign women maybe.

Anonymous said...

Well with so many women nowadays that are so very high maintenance, independent, selfish, spoiled, greedy, picky, and very money hungry, well that really speaks for itself how women have Changed today since the Good old days when the women were certainly so much Better and a lot Nicer to meet to have a relationship with which today so many that have their Careers now since they really think their all that which their certainly Not at all. It was just too very bad for us Good single men out there that we weren't born at a much Earlier time since we could've been all settled down by now with a real Good woman and our own family that many of us still Don't have today. The women of today have certainly Changed for the Worst over these years since the Good old fashioned women years ago were really the Best compared to today.

The dude said...

Why do men get blamed for this mess ? The fact is why would man a lot of time chasing a women who would have sex with a random guy who walked up to her in a club and asked. Women in the past could still be virgin by the age of 21 or maybe a few sexual partner that they could still count on one hand. Now women have had a few abortions by the age of 21. And I am not making this up. It stuff I have seen first hand.

Why chase a women spending huge amount of time,emotions and money trying to exclusive sexual rights when she would easily have a one night stand with a hot guy she ran into?

Their are a few good women left but hell the competition for them is heavy and normally married before you get a chance and yes I know this from first hand.

If women want to be courted then they need to behave like princesses not sluts who only want to get married because their looks are starting to fade.

rawr said...

i've tried the whole gallantry thing, it doesn't lead to a quality relationship, it just leads to women thinking you're a "nice guy". any future women i meet i'll have the explicit understanding that she would only want me to be a gallant gentleman towards her because she wants me to provide for her. it makes me feel like all i'm good for to them is as a wallet and a meat shield to protect her from harm. i can't speak for other men, but me personally, i'm done being a disposable tool for women. you women did this to yourselves, and it's time to pay the piper.

Anonymous said...

Are you kidding me? With the kind of women that are out there nowadays which it will be better for many of us men to stay single.